catallaxy files

catallaxy in technical exile

What they said IX

with 112 comments

Peter Garrett May 2007

A Rudd Labor Government will increase diplomatic pressure on Japan and pull out all stops in the international courts to stop whaling for all time.

Kevin Rudd December 2007

Well, I think I have a clear idea as to what the previous Australian Government did – which was nothing – when it came to the proper action to protect whales. I understand the full complexity and difficulty of this challenge. I’m fully aware of the depth and strength of our bilateral diplomatic relationship with Japan. I’m equally aware of the fact that no-one seriously believes that this is whaling for scientific purposes. Therefore, we need to embrace a proper, considered, reasonable, balanced course of action.

Peter Garrett January 2010

The Australian government has repeatedly called upon all parties to exercise restraint to ensure safety at sea and condemns violent or dangerous activities.

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Written by Sinclair Davidson

January 6, 2010 at 7:16 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

112 Responses

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  1. Kevvie Translation Services
    Doc 1

    Therefore, we need to embrace a proper, considered, reasonable, balanced course of action.

    Should read:

    We’re chickenshit.

    Adrien

    January 6, 2010 at 7:28 pm

  2. Unfortunately no matter how many instances are shown of their untruths and poor performance – they will be voted in again. Don’t underestimate the hereditary cretinism of the Australian public.

    Abu Chowdah

    January 6, 2010 at 9:15 pm

  3. Just another passing Rudd fad. Evidently, focus groups have told his spin doctors they don’t really care much about whales anymore.

    C.L.

    January 6, 2010 at 9:27 pm

  4. Well I don’t give a toss if japan harvests a few minkes. The take isn’t likely to make much of a dint in their population. I would prefer they would be up front and come out and say they just like whale burgers though. It is worth a laugh looking at some of the comments posted on the news ltd story. One woman claimed whales are sentient. others claim the Japanese have invaded our territory.

    What is fascinating is the way this little incident gets coverage. The first reports seemed to uncritically accept anything the sea shepards said (ie they were just tootling along minding their own business, and got rammed). As if a high speed, highly maneuverable trimaran could be rammed by a multi thousands of ton clunking whaling boat, unless it was deliberately parked in front of the japanese boat.

    Of course, as more information arrives the story gradually changes.

    entropy

    January 6, 2010 at 9:58 pm

  5. I enjoy the What They Said series.

    Perhaps you could indulge us with a Hansard extract next time, Sinc?

    Dominic Shore

    January 6, 2010 at 10:06 pm

  6. The hysterical rantings of the Liberals spokesman, Greg Hunt, on this issue is a joke. He thinks we should ban the hiring of Australian planes for reconnaissance and favours a general muscling up to Japan. All because he doesn’t approve of what the Japanese eat.

    If the Japanese broke out the rifles, or even just cancelled an order for some cheese, he’d back off real quick.

    This issue is long past its use-by date.

    DavidLeyonhjelm

    January 6, 2010 at 10:44 pm

  7. True. Hunt should have been thrown out with that other hysterical pansy, Turnbull.

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 1:32 am

  8. Dominic – what you got in mind?

    Sinclair Davidson

    January 7, 2010 at 8:54 am

  9. Apparently the Minkie whales are plentiful and wouldnt be at any risk with Japan harvesting many more of them.

    The iconic whales (humpbacks etc) could be protected by allowing Japan a greatly increased quota of minkies. Its sustainable (i hate that word)and everyone wins.

    But noooo, much easier to try and bring out the banhammer on all whaling.

    The Japs must hate seeing the hippocracy of a total ban for conservation, while certain species are at harvestable levels.
    If the government changed its approach to being more rational and less gree fundimentalist they might actualy achieve something.

    thefrollickingmole

    January 7, 2010 at 9:04 am

  10. Both sides of politics play games with this issue. Their actions (do nothing) are generally more intelligent than their words. This isn’t an issue that will change the course of elections but I can’t blame Labor antagonists for having some fun with Labors past rhetoric.

    TerjeP (say Tay-a)

    January 7, 2010 at 9:14 am

  11. The Strangetimes crowd thinks the news has been one sided

    http://strangetimes.lastsuperpower.net/?p=556

    Jason Soon

    January 7, 2010 at 11:17 am

  12. Could be worse they could have said they would never ever introduce a GST

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 11:18 am

  13. The Japs are having a whale of a time

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 11:19 am

  14. The first two are at odds (and only months apart), but I fail to see how the third is hypocrisy of any kind.

    FDB

    January 7, 2010 at 11:41 am

  15. The really weird thing here is that the meat is not even very tasty (or so I have heard) and the Japanese do not actually buy much of it – the government has to subsidise it to get it sold.
    Still more government lunacy.

    Andrew

    January 7, 2010 at 11:45 am

  16. The Japanese government aren’t doing the right thing here and they ought to man-up. They ought to be sending their navy into the Southern Ocean and protecting their citizens by perhaps even blowing those loons out of the water. No country should allow piracy to hound their people and place them in dangerous predicaments.

    Some people may be offended in the way the Japanese harvest whale as I’m sure Hindu’s are offended in the way we eat cattle/meat. However hindu’s don’t attack our killing factories and if they did we wouldn’t stand for it.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 11:49 am

  17. Japanese whaling could be ended by offering the Japanese more market access to Australia on something we protect and they specialise in. The deal could be that we cut subsidies to industry X for $y amount of dollars, and they cut off assistance to Japanese whaling entirely, which just happens to be $y dollars.

    The Japanese whaling industry is actually reliant on subsidies and would struggle to survive as free enterprise.

    http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/japanese-whaling931.html#cr

    Semi Regular Libertarian

    January 7, 2010 at 11:50 am

  18. That’s not entirely true Andrew. That was always a bullshit story that came out from the environmental loons.

    The Japanese government don’t subsidize these vessels any more than they subsidize other fishing. The meat they get is sold and the wastage is no more than the wastage from other fishing.

    It’s about time these clowns were taught a lesson and perhaps the Japanese government ought to think about imposing sanctions on countries such as ours that support piracy/sea terror by sanctioning capital exports.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 11:53 am

  19. What’s an “iconic whale”?

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 11:55 am

  20. SRL:

    As far as I understand it the whaling fleet is no more subsidized than the rest of their fishing fleets.

    People always need to be careful with stuff that comes from the western environmental loons as they lie a lot. There is a market for that blubber in Japan.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 11:56 am

  21. JC,

    Yes a grain of salt. But such a policy would be no regrets, as tariffs hurt our consumers more than it hurts their producers.

    Semi Regular Libertarian

    January 7, 2010 at 12:00 pm

  22. True SRL.

    I’m not supporting their subsidies by the way, I’m just shedding light on the fact that the whale fishing fleet is no more subsidized than the rest of the Japanese fishing industry.

    Killing animals is a horrendous thing we do in order to sustain our protein intake and hopefully some day we’ll be advanced enough to avoid killing any animal for its flesh.

    However the dishonesty and duplicity of these loons and Australian governments over this issue is sickening.

    We have killing factories terminating the lives of all sorts of animals in the West that would be truly offensive to some cultures. However they don’t go around trying to destroy even a tiny part of our protein supply and if they did it would be open war.

    For some reason the Australian government thinks it has some sort of ownership over international waters and can tell other people what and how they can behave and it supports or rather tacitly supports piracy and terror at sea.

    The Japanese navy ought to come down and teach these fuckers a lesson by protecting its citizens by perhaps opening fire on them.

    We offer sanctuary to these loons and therefore we’re partially responsible if any of those Japanese suffer loss of life.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:14 pm

  23. If whalemeat is unpalatable and most dont eat it why do you think the industry should get our support?

    BTW unlike other food sources the whale is not a domestic animal.

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 12:20 pm

  24. JC wants to go to war to “teach these fuckers a lesson”

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 12:21 pm

  25. Mr Libertarian indeed

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 12:21 pm

  26. Rog:

    You should be worrying about paying back your creditors than trying hard to come up with short pithy comments that sound more like screeching chalk on a blackboard. You really are truly freaking stupid.

    If whalemeat is unpalatable and most dont eat it why do you think the industry should get our support?

    “Most” don’t have to eat it. Only some people have to, to create an industry, you innumerate moron. There are Japanese that eat whale meat. Not all do, but enough.

    BTW unlike other food sources the whale is not a domestic animal.

    Neither is kangaroo, you invertebrate and yet Australians eat it.

    JC wants to go to war to “teach these fuckers a lesson”

    That’s not what I said, you dishonest grub. The Japanese government has a responsibility to protect its people from terror and piracy on the waters. That’s a primary job of any government.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm

  27. Mr Libertarian indeed

    Actually I am, Rog. Unlike you I’m not Doc. Edelsten’s wife yet and will never be.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:29 pm

  28. Killing animals is a horrendous thing we do in order to sustain our protein intake and hopefully some day we’ll be advanced enough to avoid killing any animal for its flesh.
    .
    Y’know sometimes Joe you go all SNAGy on us.
    .
    Viz Killing whales. There’s some evidence says whales are sentient beings with the ability to communicate linguistically. Surely that puts them outside of animals we should kill for food.

    Adrien

    January 7, 2010 at 12:38 pm

  29. Oh Lord, Mrs Edelsten is now worried about the whales.

    BTW unlike other food sources the whale is not a domestic animal.

    Like the sardine.

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 12:41 pm

  30. What is the alternative then?

    Monsieur, your Escargot is ready to be served…

    Actually, I believe Adrien would consider this a step up the social ladder!

    Semi Regular Libertarian

    January 7, 2010 at 12:43 pm

  31. Adrien:

    Sheep can be pretty smart too. I once saw several sheep that a person kept as pets and they actually behaved and showed different temperament characteristics that sorta shocked me.

    Pigs are pretty smart and they communicate by screaming their heads off as they forced into an abattoir knowing its a death machine.

    That’s no excuse.

    The environmental pirates are terrorizing people in the high seas and they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it. By giving these loons safe harbor our government is actually supporting terror.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:46 pm

  32. The Japs do not kill whales to eat them they do it for ‘research’.

    Terror and piracy on the seas by whom?

    We do not have ‘killing factories’ of animals close to extinction

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 12:50 pm

  33. The Japs do not kill whales to eat them they do it for ‘research’.

    That’s obvious bullshit. They eat the meat.

    Terror and piracy on the seas by whom?

    Do you really need to be told?

    We do not have ‘killing factories’ of animals close to extinction

    Whales are not extinct or even close to eat. At times like these I wish a decent part of the human species was extinct, Homes.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:54 pm

  34. oops

    Whales are not extinct or even close to it

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm

  35. Fancy Forrest being wrong on all three areas.

    wow

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 1:04 pm

  36. Fancy Forrest being wrong on all three areas.

    wow

    I’ll just bother proving you wrong in one as I can’t really be bothered dealing with a low IQ’ed dope.

    The Japs do not kill whales to eat them they do it for ‘research’.

    The link carries pics of a Japanese Whale meat shop.

    http://www.kirainet.com/english/whale-meat-shop/

    Homer, The Australian government should withdraw your citizenship as you’re too freaking dumb to be holding such a worthwhile thing.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 1:09 pm

  37. From the link:

    Whale bacon on sale. They say it is very healthy.

    Possibly less fatty then pork.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 1:17 pm

  38. I understand the Japs find the eating of cuddly kangaroos to be offensive.

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 1:19 pm

  39. One of the best vid shots for 2010 and the year hasn’t begun.

    http://player.video.news.com.au/theaustralian/#1378248280

    In real life the batboat gets crushed. LOL.

    Freaking morons.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 1:23 pm

  40. The funniest thing is that after they’ve crushed the SS pirates, the Japs give them another good spray of the high pressure hose. No mercy!

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 1:34 pm

  41. Here’s a picture of a Western terrorist with a beard (obviously trying to emulate his Islamic conemptorary loons) throwing acid towards the Japanese in an attempt to cause harm.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/gallery-e6frg6n6-1225816681848?page=11

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 1:42 pm

  42. Pigs are pretty smart and they communicate by screaming their heads off as they forced into an abattoir knowing its a death machine.
    .
    yeah, I can’t eat pig because I know that (a) they’re smart, and (b) their deaths at the abbatoir are horrible, drawn out and painful.
    .
    These facts don’t apply to cows, sheep, chickens, or fish, which I eat without compunction.
    (okay, fishes’ deaths might be painful and drawn out, and chickens don’t have high quality of life, but they are not smart like pigs).

    daddy dave

    January 7, 2010 at 1:43 pm

  43. Forrest just to show what sort of idiot you are.
    It is the Japs who claim they do not kill whales for eating they kill it for ‘scientific/research purposes.

    look up terror and piracy at the same time.

    the press release for Garrett in May and December said WHY they wanted to take action?

    gosh how many species of whales are close to extinction

    Unbelievable

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 1:47 pm

  44. smart schmart

    who can live without treats like bacon, suckling pig, honey roasted ham, roast pork Chinese style with crackling and so much more?

    jtfsoon

    January 7, 2010 at 1:51 pm

  45. Right, Homer. The Japs use that “research” line as a nominal justification for their true agenda.

    See also socialists and “global warming.”

    No pork, anti-meat? Dave and JC need to man up. 😉

    C.L.

    January 7, 2010 at 1:54 pm

  46. Homer, you moron;

    The Japanese can fucking well say what they like. If they wish to call killing whales research and they are within their prescribed quota tough shit. They can call it what they like.

    However you said this, you intellectual goon:

    The Japs do not kill whales to eat them they do it for ‘research’.

    The link shows they eat the meat. You’re wrong again.

    Homer of course wants to save the whale but had no issue with fellow nazis shoving Jews in work camps suggesting that wasn’t cruel.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 1:59 pm

  47. The Japs have to because commercial whaling is unpalatable worldwide when quite a few whales have been close to extinction.
    The numbers have grown back since the banning happened.

    No you have it wrong it is only the delusionists who deny global warming.
    people such as yourself who ware mathematically challenged

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  48. I do eat meat, Cl. However I feel pretty awful doing so and won’t eat veal or young animals. That’s just me though and I have no issue with what other people want to do.

    Moreover I don’t condone piracy and terror on the high seas, as well as these thugs getting safe harbor in our ports.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:01 pm

  49. Homer:

    The japanese are abiding by the international conventions and quotas set for whale catching by the international grouping that sets these things annually.

    If the Japs want to call it “research” and are keeping within their quota it’s up to them.

    Now STFU.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:04 pm

  50. Forrest go away and play with the children they may understand you.

    The Japanese Government has for yonks say they do not kill whales to eat them but for scientific research Did you notice the how I had ‘research’ at all.

    Try and think before you again give us another example of your utter stupidity.

    You are again lying about work camps.

    I specifically talked about labour services camps in particular before 1936.

    you are talking about camps after 1938 when Jews were imprisoned for being Jews.
    Something you have been hit over the head many a time so we do know you are deliberately lying.

    Typical of you to lie your way out of a hole you have dug yourself in

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 2:06 pm

  51. How many butters?

    Semi Regular Libertarian

    January 7, 2010 at 2:09 pm

  52. The IWC was set up to control whaling, not prevent it.
    So as minke whales are fairly plentiful, it should be now have allowed whaling with quotas. The Japanese are quite entitled legally to do what they are doing.
    I can’t for the life of me understand why they want to – most of the catch ends up in long term frozen storage. The demand is really very small. There is, or was, a whale restaurant in Shibuya but for most Japanese whale meat is that awful stuff they or their parents had to eat during the war.
    My guess is that a good mediator could solve the problem but not while the Sea Shepherd is continuing with its dopiness.
    Imagine Australia is a similar situation. You reckon we wouldn’t get stubborn?

    Ken Nielsen

    January 7, 2010 at 2:10 pm

  53. Homer:

    As I said, if the Japanese are acting within their quota limits set by the organization that sets them and they sign on the dotted line then they can call it whatever they like as it’s up to them.

    The reason why they’re calling it that is obviously a silly attempt to try to placate western environmental goon squads.

    However they can call it whatever they want.

    if there is any criticism it’s that they shouldn’t fear these terrorists/pirates and simply call it what it is..hunting for meat.

    Having said that, it’s still up to them.

    Now go away.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:13 pm

  54. jesus JC I didn’t know you had such snaggy feelings about meat.

    No wonder you ordered seafood at that Balkan place we went to a while ago and got mocked by c8to …

    jtfsoon

    January 7, 2010 at 2:13 pm

  55. I think a lot of the anti-whaling people in Oz are under the misapprehension that Jap whaling is contributing to the extinction of whales. Do a poll and that’s probably what a lot of people think.

    jtfsoon

    January 7, 2010 at 2:15 pm

  56. hahahahhahahahaha

    Na I eat meat, jase. However I do suffer guilt pangs when I do. I tend to eat a lot more seafood though and as a matter of fact I’m stuffing myself with a delicious tuna salad right now that I managed to coax my better 1/2 in making me for lunch. 🙂

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:16 pm

  57. Great points, ken. I agree.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:19 pm

  58. no-one disagrees they are within their quotas the argument is about whether the quotas are too liberal or not.

    Which is what the original what they said is about.

    It is in the press release if you can read

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 2:20 pm

  59. Does anyone here speak Eastwoodlish, as Homer has posted in that language that i don’t understand.

    Thanks in advance.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:23 pm

  60. daddy dave: how is it that pigs are killed differently from cows and other livestock in Australia?

    I tend to think there is a real lack of concern over pig treatment while they are alive (the birthing stalls that sows have to be in for weeks at a time, for example), but I wasn’t aware that they would be killed in any different way from other livestock.

    steve from brisbane

    January 7, 2010 at 2:24 pm

  61. By the way, I object to whaling as itself involving a slow and painful death of a very intelligent animal. It’s not exactly a controlled situation, chasing your target and hoping your explosive tipped harpoon will hit the right spot.

    steve from brisbane

    January 7, 2010 at 2:31 pm

  62. All so different than putting a slug in a kangaroo, right Steve?

    The harpoon has a 50 cal explode-on-impact in some cases which is not really much different than hitting a roo with a much smaller slug.

    (How could I have guessed you’d be on the right side of the angels on this one too. It was so, so difficult.)

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:36 pm

  63. how do you propose they kill the darned thing steve? fire a giant tranquilizer up its arse first?

    jtfsoon

    January 7, 2010 at 2:39 pm

  64. “I’m stuffing myself with a delicious tuna salad right now that I managed to coax my better 1/2 in making me for lunch.”

    Niçoise? I hope so for your sake. In fact, bring on any salad with hardboiled eggs.

    Gado Gado FTW!

    FDB

    January 7, 2010 at 2:40 pm

  65. I hate hard boiled eggs, FDB.

    —————-
    how do you propose they kill the darned thing steve? fire a giant tranquilizer up its arse first?

    like this perhaps and ruin a car

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 2:46 pm

  66. the ady gil looks like it is flying the jolly roger. there is a flag in the video released by the japs with a white circular thing on a black background.

    http://www.eco-yachts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54:earthrace-goes-black-ady-gil-vs-whalers&catid=10:act-now&Itemid=14

    and it has a jolly roger on the side

    i wonder if NZ has any dated laws that allow people to defend themselves from ships bearing the jolly roger.

    drscroogemcduck

    January 7, 2010 at 2:58 pm

  67. Jason, the point is that taking into account the level of discomfort involved in raising and killing the meat we eat is not an unreasonable exercise. Most people think it is a good thing to make the kill of any animal quick, and the higher up the scale of intelligence, the worse we should feel if their death is unnecessarily prolonged.

    I’m not an expert on the topic, but it stands to reason that it’s hard to guarantee a quick and clean kill of a whale, animals which I would be sure are a hell of a lot smarter than a kangaroo, which admittedly does suffer the same problem of a clean kill.

    It’s also hardly necessary that any country supplement their meat with that from sea mammals, given the amount of abattoir killed meat they can get.

    Japan almost certainly insists on whaling simply because they do not want to be seen to be a pushover in any negotiations about ocean food, regardless of whether its fish or mammal. They eat so much seafood of all varieties that they see as crucial to retain a strong position, regardless of actual demand for whale meat.

    steve from brisbane

    January 7, 2010 at 4:07 pm

  68. This is why the Japanese navy ought to be down there and protect its citizens with use of arms. These freaking dangerous loons put the Japanese captain in a position where he could lose the ship and cause great loss of life.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 6:57 pm

  69. Would any Australian citizen put up with that? These people are terrorists and pirates. There ship should be confiscated and the criminals sent to jail for many years. In fact the Japanese government should put out an international arrest warrant for these human dregs.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 6:59 pm

  70. Talking of crims, have you seen The Cove?

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 7:21 pm

  71. Yea I have Edel. But what exactly is your point? Do you have ever have a point to make, you blubbering fool.

    We’re talking about a pirate ship deliberately hitting another ship that’s legally going about its way in open, international waters.

    Moreover we give sanctuary and safe harbor to these criminals, which you’re perfectly fine with.

    How about this: next time someone rams the side of your stupid car just watch the vid you posted as it automatically absolves the other party from damages and legal sanction.

    You two bit grub.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 7:33 pm

  72. Your last stupid, stupidly hilarious point was that we only eat domesticated animals like… I guess the last tuna can you stuck your paws in was the meat from the domesticated land dwelling tuna.

    just go away.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 7:44 pm

  73. Forrest eyes are as good as his reading ability.

    We can see the Japanese vessel deliberately changing course and ramming the other vessel.

    Hint the person who rams someone hits the other vessel they do not cut the other vessel in two.

    you are a complete imbecile

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 7:48 pm

  74. Homer:

    the black black with it’s nose to the stern of the grey boat is not the Japanese ship in the vid I posted. Tell me you didn’t know that.. please. Tell me you’re confused as a result of the anti-stupid pills.

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 8:04 pm

  75. hey stupid there is a much better video which clearly shows the Japanese vessel ramming the other one.

    you are such an idiot and a wood-duck

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 8:11 pm

  76. I guess people see what they want to see Homer.
    No question though that the behavior of the master of the trimaran was stupidly dangerous.

    Ken Nielsen

    January 7, 2010 at 8:20 pm

  77. Ken there are two videos of the action. The one from the Japanese vessel loos to show the other vessel impeding the Japanese boat.

    The other video taken from a further distance clearly shows the Japanese vessel changing course and ramming the other boat.

    It isn’t even close.

    Stupidly dangerous in not anticipating a much larger boat ramming him .Yeah Ken

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 7, 2010 at 8:29 pm

  78. As I said, we see what we want to see.
    Stupidly dangerous in sailing very close to another vessel in circumstances where a small misjudgment from either could be fatal.
    Pretty clear to me.

    Ken Nielsen

    January 7, 2010 at 8:36 pm

  79. Both sides have breached maritime convention – its a game being played out for the press.

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 9:14 pm

  80. Meantime Admiral JC Liberterian wants to go to war, it’s good for his morale

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 9:17 pm

  81. Toot toot! make way for Capt JC of the SS Libertarian!

    Broom! broom!

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 9:20 pm

  82. Steve from brisbane. Re. demand for whale meat in Japan.

    I’ve lived there. It’s hardly consumed at all. I’ve only seen it once in a sushi restaurant, and on the couple of occassions I went down to Tsukiji – the huge fish market in Tokyo – I found there was only a small section where it was sold at all. Even then the stalls selling it sold mostly other fish.

    I’ve been told by the locals that whalemeat is seen as “the food of the old and poor”, much like tripe and offal in the west as it is associated with the food shortages during and after the war.

    In fact, it appears a lot of whale meat goes to pet food.

    My understanding is that the reason for whaling is more or less like this:-

    * the political system is corrupt and hands out money for various endeavours, usually construction etc, but also to whalers for “food security”. It’s a mutual bribery system, business funds political campaigns so their tame politicians will divert juicy projects to business. Japanese electioneering is hugely expensive as it requires a lot of outright vote-buying

    * “food security” would not be a bad excuse given the near starvation they suffered during and shortly after the war, if it were not for the fact that there is essentially no human demand

    * having invested in whaling ships, the value of the whale stock is then more or less equal to your investment in the ships

    * without whaling your ships are worthless

    * therefore the whalers pressure the politicians to maintain whaling

    * the politicians being reliant on donations to stay in office don’t want to see their benefactors go broke

    Apparently, this dynamic works across the entire economy, not just whaling.

    JM

    January 7, 2010 at 9:33 pm

  83. I don’t think it’s the jolly roger, but it’s some variation of it. It’s on the sea shepherd website on the right-hand site.

    Greego

    January 7, 2010 at 9:56 pm

  84. There are other problems, some whale meat is toxic. They also label dolphin meat as whale, dolphins have extremely high levels of mercury and are very toxic – Japan has alrady had a nasty time over mercury poisoning – Minimata disease.

    rog

    January 7, 2010 at 9:58 pm

  85. Homer:

    Let me go through this again.

    You saying that the gray boat- the one in front-being rammed in the stern by the criminals boat- the black boat is at fault?

    If this is what you’re saying then please have someone call the medics and get yourself admitted to to a psyche ward in a strait jacket

    jc

    January 7, 2010 at 11:52 pm

  86. Rog:

    What have I said that you think conflicts with libertarian thinking as i would be interested to know.

    Unlike you and like minded types I am tolerant of other people’s ways such as the Japanese who have fished for whale etc for literally centuries upon centuries.

    I don’t particularly like what they’re doing however I don’t believe that we have any right to be telling other nations or rather people of other nations what they can do if they are obeying international treaty obligations.

    I don’t like the idea of these people being endangered when they’re going about their lawful business.

    So please explain why you think it’s not libertarian of me to think the Japanese navy ought to protect their people and keep them out of harms way even at the cost of firing on the terrorists such as in the example shown in the last video that you have chosen to ignore.

    Frankly I don’t see your logic as I’m sure nobody else would other than say Homer, whose opinion never really counts for much anyway.

    Please explain.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 12:05 am

  87. JM

    Well and good.

    it could be like as you have described however the economic issue of how they get there is their problem, not ours, as they are the ones laboring under a debt to GDP ratio of 220% of GDP.

    If they want to continue hunting whale and abide by international law then the issue of how they arrange their economic affairs is not our business and certainly doesn’t deserve ramming their boats. I really don’t understand why you would even think it is pertinent to the discussion.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 12:10 am

  88. I don’t think it’s crystal clear who’s at fault – from one video it seems that the japanese move to the right enough to hit the black boat. But, the black boat has clearly moved to a provocative position first (see the wake behind it and the earlier video), and as the japs approach the black boat moves forward. It’s also unclear what prior provocation was made against the whalers, who have every right to defend themselves if they’re being attacked or disrupted.

    Greego

    January 8, 2010 at 12:19 am

  89. Greego:

    There’s been past history of these terrorists threatening these people. On February 9th last year they actually rammed the rear of a Japanese vessel and actually put lives at risk.

    I’ll repeat the video for the third and you’ll see what I mean.

    Now as far as the batboat is concerned we don’t have enough information yet.

    1. It’s not clear if the batboat was attempting to slow the larger vessel so that say another ship could ram it like they did last February.

    2. The Japanese could not afford to take any chances as they didn’t know if these human dregs were armed as the previous year’s action show they had little concern for loss of life.

    3. The Japanese are in international waters going about their own affairs and obviously abiding with international treaties.

    4. It seems to me that the bat-boat was actually speeding up playing chicken with the bigger ship.

    5 If this went to a court of law it would be the same as say someone playing around and cutting you off in the middle of the road as a result of some grudge or road-rage, so you would be perfectly entitled to take evasive action and if the other party incurred damages the court would take a pretty dim view of their behavior.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 12:43 am

  90. JC, I think it’s pertinent simply for understanding their motivations.

    I’m not saying the rest of the world should subsume our interests to those motivations, just that understanding them helps us deal with the conflict.

    We can’t ask a nation simply to give up what it perceives as its national interest while pursuing our own. But to have any hope of negotiating a resolution we have to understand their thinking.

    And there is a conflict. Australia asserts rights over the Antarctic and it’s waters, and has a judicial decision that whaling is illegal in those waters. Japan asserts the opposite.

    Somebody mentioned the use of the Jolly Rodger earlier, that’s definitely a no-no; but Japans whaling contravenes Australian law.

    There is definitely a conflict to which there are two alternatives:- gunboats, or negotiation.

    JM

    January 8, 2010 at 2:46 am

  91. First off it will never get to us firing on each other.

    Australia can assert what it pleases, however there is no treaty or international recognition that we “own” anything beyond the 200 mile limit off our borders.

    Other nations simply don’t accept our sovereignty over parts of international waters around the antarctic so we can crow as much as we like.

    We are actually extending our preferences outside out boundaries, allowing terrorists/pirates to take safe harbor.

    As far as i can tell, we’re the ones behaving irresponsibly here and if the Australian government doesn’t take action against those clowns the Japanese should do so immediately and without hesitation as their citizens are being endangered.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 3:01 am

  92. JM’s description of why Japan supports the whaling industry and whale meat’s role in the Japanese diet is accurate.
    And the SS’s activity almost certainly makes it less likely that they will stop.

    Ken Nielsen

    January 8, 2010 at 5:21 am

  93. JC reverts to his lefty roots by projecting his psychosis;

    “Unlike you and like minded types I am tolerant of other people’s ways..”

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 6:56 am

  94. “I don’t particularly like what they’re doing however I don’t believe that we have any right to be telling other nations or rather people of other nations what they can do if they are obeying international treaty obligations.”

    But they are not.

    They are hunting whales to eat which is against international treaty obligations by the IWC.

    The IWC, of which Japan is a member, was formed from the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling, to which Japan is a signatory.

    They are also hunting in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary which is an internationally recognised

    Japan is defying all “international treaty obligations” on whaling

    Japan has a long history of breaching its quota for southern bluefin tuna but its beyond govts to enforce.

    Thats where private individuals can play a role, by naming and shaming.

    Personally I have great respect for the Paul Watson and the SS.

    Why are you such a closet statist JC?

    You just get off on Big Brother dont you

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 7:18 am

  95. Why is it that when I read right wing (GOP) punditry on the govt, economy, on Obama, on everything – the comparisons made are with Presidents starting with Clinton and going back in time..

    ..but never of Bush?

    Is it like he was so bad to be unmentionable?

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 8:36 am

  96. Here is V D Hanson on why things are the way they are In general, al-Qaida interprets our outreach as a sign of moral weakness.

    but no mention of Bush

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 8:43 am

  97. Forrest you idiot that isn’t the incident we are talking about that just happened and could have led to people being killed.

    You have a small craft well in front of the Japanese vessel. You have the Japanese vessel deliberately shifting ti its right and ramming the much smaller vessel.

    It was on the news last night.

    It is why I said there are TWO videos of the incident.

    We have have people who degrade the terms terrorist and pirate.

    Compare this with what happens off Somalia and it is chalk and cheese indeed it is insulting to use the terms at all.

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 8, 2010 at 9:36 am

  98. And around and around and around we go.
    It’s a good thing this isn’t using ink and paper.

    Ken Nielsen

    January 8, 2010 at 10:11 am

  99. Homer is concerned about SS whale pirates but plays down the horror of Hitler’s Labour camps.

    Why the moral chasm?

    Because Kevin’s focus groups told him that luvvies cared about whales in 2007 and so he (hilariously) promised to shut down the Jap whaling industry. This is in the same category as his promise to end the nuclear arms race, cool the planet, give a laptop to every Aussie kiddy and NEVER EVER go into deficit.

    C.L.

    January 8, 2010 at 10:37 am

  100. Funny guy that Obama, the mil net is buzzing with tacit support of GWB and repudiation of his and the the Dem position on Iraq: “Under tough circumstances, the men and women of the United States military have served with honor, and succeeded beyond any expectation.”

    – Rog – before he met Geoffrey – mocks Obama for validating Bush.

    C.L.

    January 8, 2010 at 10:40 am

  101. yea, that’s right homer, the vid I presented was last year… that was so 2009. So passe it doesn’t matter.

    Edel and the Nazi economist defending whales. Lol….

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 11:48 am

  102. all this talk about the SS, I thought Homer was defending the Third Reich again.

    jtfsoon

    January 8, 2010 at 11:55 am

  103. They are hunting whales to eat which is against international treaty obligations by the IWC.

    Bullshit. Whaling nations have quotas and there is no suggestion Japan is breaking their quota.

    The IWC, of which Japan is a member, was formed from the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling, to which Japan is a signatory.

    Show where it says you can’t eat whale meat.

    They are also hunting in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary which is an internationally recognised

    No it’s not, you dickhead. We named the Southern Ocean a sanctuary which other nations have simply ignored and rightfully so too.

    Japan is defying all “international treaty obligations” on whaling

    Did Geoffrey tell you to say that?

    Japan has a long history of breaching its quota for southern bluefin tuna but its beyond govts to enforce.

    What’s that have to do whale hunting? Nothing obviously. Zippo.

    Thats where private individuals can play a role, by naming and shaming.

    The terrorists are not naming and shaming, they ramming ships like they did last year, you numbnut, putting lives in danger.

    Personally I have great respect for the Paul Watson and the SS.

    Of course you would. Since your sex change operation you would have lots of respect for him. Are you smitten?

    Why are you such a closet statist JC?
    You just get off on Big Brother dont you

    So let’s see, you name a treaty, suggest our unilateral declaration of a sanctuary is internationally recognized and call me the statist for not supporting terrorists.

    You really are a venom filled dope, Rogette.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 12:01 pm

  104. all this talk about the SS, I thought Homer was defending the Third Reich again.

    Its interchangeable, Jason. It could mean both for the Fehruer lover.

    jc

    January 8, 2010 at 12:10 pm

  105. CL showing he doesn’t understand the difference between labor services programs and labour camps again or if he does he is well lying.

    Japan can only kill whales IF it is for ‘scientific research. If it is for commercial whaling then it is illegal.
    Forrest believes they are killing whales to eat sh he obviously believes the Japs are hunting illegally so he must think the Japs are the terrorists and pirates!

    Butterfield, Bloomfield & Bishop

    January 8, 2010 at 12:14 pm

  106. Personally I have great respect for the Paul Watson and the SS.

    More on Watson:

    [Sea Shepherd founder Paul Watson] has been reported as referring to Greenpeace as “Yellowpeace” over its refusal to use violence, and in a 2007 interview with the New Yorker claimed credit for sinking – in port – 10 ships. The magazine’s assessment was that he and his crew had attempted to scuttle two vessels and had successfully sunk two others.

    C.L.

    January 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm

  107. Obviously JC is too lazy to look it up so here it is;

    IWC with signatories

    IWC moratorium on killing whales

    How many other international treaties do you want to ignore?

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 4:59 pm

  108. JC thinks that terrorists (those that break international treaties) should be given safe haven whilst those that oppose terror be called pirates and blasted out of the water.

    Have another slice of blubber

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 5:04 pm

  109. here ya go JC, another “researcher” checking the quality of the “sample”

    Just remember that the Japs say they arent hunting for food, its just for research

    rog

    January 8, 2010 at 5:55 pm

  110. mmm whale meat kebabs

    tal

    January 8, 2010 at 5:58 pm

  111. Tried it once. Don’t need to do it again.
    It isn’t at all fatty – the blubber is on the outside – the meat is lean, a bit like kangaroo, which is much better.

    Ken Nielsen

    January 8, 2010 at 6:04 pm


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