catallaxy files

catallaxy in technical exile

Those evil neo-liberals

CL left this in the open thread but it needs a thread of its own.

Mr Hawke fired up when fellow interview guest and public intellectual Clive Hamilton attacked the Hawke-Keating government’s economic reforms along with society’s obsession with growth and wealth generation.

The former prime minister dismissed the criticisms as “crap”.

“I say ‘crap’ because I find it strange verging almost on the obscene to hear comparatively well-situated people telling the poor they don’t need to aspire to improve their condition through wealth,” he said.

Mr Hawke said the world was not going to solve problems like climate change or provide better educational opportunities without gaining extra revenue from taxpayers in a growing economy.

“Tonight in this world one billion people will go to bed hungry,” he said.

“Now, if the affluent world is going to help these billion people, are they going to do it by saying a prayer, sitting in their professorial chair and saying growth is terrible?”

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Written by Sinclair Davidson

December 29, 2009 at 5:14 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

41 Responses

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  1. You do miss him, don’t you?

    Ken Nielsen

    December 29, 2009 at 5:29 pm

  2. Good one, Hawkie.

    C.L.

    December 29, 2009 at 5:56 pm

  3. Go Bob!

    Abu Chowdah

    December 29, 2009 at 7:56 pm

  4. Does Bob suffer from the Howard derangement syndrome? He should have been happy with the Howard legacy of taxing and spending, and the financial reserves that were left for the ALP to spend.

    Rafe

    December 29, 2009 at 8:38 pm

  5. Yeah, the parting shot at Howard was disappointing but nobody ever said Bob had class. And he was just being honest, I guess. I’m sure Howard was glee-filled when Hawke was ignominiously thrown out of The Lodge by his own party. Not to mention Bob’s wounded ego at being relegated to third place in the list of longest serving prime ministers. Ouch. That had to hurt. Credit to him on this occasion, though, for stomping on Clive Hamilton’s watermelon head.

    C.L.

    December 29, 2009 at 8:43 pm

  6. Why is the right such a history-free zone? It’s like constantly having to compete against an unequal adversary. Which offends our inclusive, collectivist spirit.

    Really. One does so often yearn for a worthy opposition.

    It was Whitlam, dudes, who famously said, before he won office, that he could equally have joined the Liberal Party as Labour.

    pegasus

    December 29, 2009 at 8:47 pm

  7. Those economic policies labelled ‘neoliberal’ are essentially an elaborate ruse to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich. It’s a shame that people who seem otherwise intelligent and decent get suckered into such stupidity. Those people who are hungry (and the figure is probably closer to two billion, than one) are not going to get fed through ‘free trade’ and flat taxes.

    THR

    December 29, 2009 at 8:57 pm

  8. Really. One does so often yearn for a worthy opposition.
    .
    ‘Oh if only you on the right would put up a bit of a fight!’
    It’s one of the Left’s favorite lines, mocked by Buckley several decades ago, when he first founded conservative magazine, National Review:

    All three journals seem to resent the mere existence of NATIONAL REVIEW — not, understand, because they are intolerant of dissent (there is nothing-they-would-welcome-more-than-genuine -dissent); but because it pains them to be bored by it, and when they are not being bored by it they are being affronted by its vulgarity, appalled by its insouciance, or dismayed by its ignorance. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is more urgently needed than a real conservative magazine; but, alas, ours is not such a thing, and they must, accordingly, continue to scan the heavens for it.

    daddy dave

    December 29, 2009 at 9:26 pm

  9. Those economic policies labelled ‘neoliberal’ are essentially an elaborate ruse to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich
    .
    ding! congratulations, you have distilled the left-wing position down to a single, clear sentence! Wonderful. Naturally, I don’t agree with that claim. I disagree in two ways. Firstly, there’s no ruse – there’s no secret intention to transfer wealth in that way. Secondly, ruse or not, that’s not the end result of such policies. They simply don’t transfer wealth in that way.
    .
    The misunderstanding is this: neoliberal policies are designed to increase total wealth, across society. This benefits rich and poor alike, although in absolute amounts, the rich gain more than the poor.

    daddy dave

    December 29, 2009 at 9:31 pm

  10. THR is clearly a conservative sock-puppet parodying a simpleton Left-winger. But it doesn’t ring true. I mean his statements are too consistently over the top to be taken seriously as representing the Left.

    Abu Chowdah

    December 29, 2009 at 9:35 pm

  11. And so we have here folks the unlovely spectacle of Abu Chowdown, of “irregardless” infamy, capable only of spewing forth random meaningless words with neither substance nor grammatical coherence nor authenticity.

    At best impotent (‘keep that seed to yourself sonny’, he advises new blog commenteres), at worst a premature ejaculator extraordinaire.

    Ho hum.

    pegasus

    December 29, 2009 at 9:46 pm

  12. of “irregardless” infamy,
    .
    Phil, you’re infamous, not Abu, for thinking it wasn’t a word when it is. and please stick to one moniker, you’re making my head spin.

    daddy dave

    December 29, 2009 at 9:52 pm

  13. What’s a “commenteres”? And what would a pedant make of that, pegasus?

    Impossible to parody, pegasus never fails to amuse with his endless streams of bile and witty juvenile plays on user names.

    Abu Chowdah

    December 29, 2009 at 9:52 pm

  14. Phil, “irregardless” (a lexicographically extant and acknowledged word) is a pretty flimsy hook on which to hang an entire corpus of rebuttals. Especially from someone who tried to pass off Prince Sihanouk as William Shawcross.

    C.L.

    December 29, 2009 at 10:00 pm

  15. Firstly, there’s no ruse – there’s no secret intention to transfer wealth in that way.

    You’re right in a way, dave. I meant ‘ruse’ in a manner akin to what ‘rationalisation’ means in psychoanalytic parlance.

    Secondly, ruse or not, that’s not the end result of such policies. They simply don’t transfer wealth in that way.

    This simply isn’t true. The ‘theory’ of neoliberalism is neoclassical economics, but the ‘practice’ is one of state collusion with private enterprise. In Australia, Workchoices was an example of neoliberalism par excellence.

    .
    The misunderstanding is this: neoliberal policies are designed to increase total wealth, across society

    Nonsense dave. Study your history. There isn’t a single nation that ever dragged itself out of poverty through ‘neoliberalism’ and its policies. When the GFC hit last year, most developed countries dropped the pretence of believing in this bullshit, and embarked upon deficit-fuelled stimulus packages. And as for absolute wealth increasing – in the US, for instance, whose labour laws tend toward the neoliberal ideal, real wages have not increased for over thirty years. These are your ‘benefits’ for ‘rich and poor alike’.

    THR

    December 29, 2009 at 10:08 pm

  16. When the GFC hit last year, most developed countries dropped the pretence of believing in this bullshit, and embarked upon deficit-fuelled stimulus packages
    .
    yes, but these stimulus packages did not work.
    .
    There isn’t a single nation that ever dragged itself out of poverty through ‘neoliberalism’ and its policies.
    .
    South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Japan.

    daddy dave

    December 29, 2009 at 10:16 pm

  17. Wrong. I had this debate with Jarrah recently. Most of the above countries employed massive government intervention to develop their export industries. None of them were truly ‘free market’.

    THR

    December 29, 2009 at 11:18 pm

  18. Back to the tread…Hawke pins what Hamilton is on about so well.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 12:02 am

  19. oops NOT tread… thread. lol

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 12:03 am

  20. Abu:

    ignore peggy… peggy is a sock puppet for this lunatic called phil. Phil used to tell us she was a man and then later he changed to woman. Phil is also a sock puppet for Philomena and before that there was Isher.

    peggy, phil, Philomena, isher is on day release from the psyche ward at a large teaching hospital dealing with multiple personality disorder.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 12:10 am

  21. “peggy, phil, Philomena, isher is on day release from the psyche ward at a large teaching hospital dealing with multiple personality disorder.”

    Are they really different personalities though?

    Fleeced

    December 30, 2009 at 12:50 am

  22. Good to see Hawke stick it to Hamilton though… and to be honest, I don’t blame him for dissing Howard. We all know that’s the way he’d feel – any other answer would have been dishonest.

    Fleeced

    December 30, 2009 at 12:54 am

  23. Good point Fleeced. Perhaps the Psyche ward is treating the wrong symptoms. It could be some horrid combination of bi-polar, low self-esteem and serious aggression/anger problems.

    Whatever it is its one nasty set of issues to contend with.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 1:07 am

  24. On an unrelated note, it’s good to see other insomniacs up at silly hours (or do you have another excuse for a 1AM post?)

    Fleeced

    December 30, 2009 at 1:46 am

  25. This is my busy work time. I generally get to bed at 4 in the morn. I’m a shift worker 🙂

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 1:55 am

  26. A night trader?

    Fleeced

    December 30, 2009 at 1:58 am

  27. last 1/2 hour (for instance). I sold out of a consumer related stock, bought more US dollar against yen and bought an education based company. This one is amazing. It makes a little money and has a 33% short interest which could mean (we) longs end up removing the limbs from these shorts with blood and flesh strewn all over the NYC trading floor as well on our Italian hand stitched suits. 🙂

    It’s an ugly job killing the dumb shorts as these days it’s like clubbing baby seals, but someone has to do it.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 2:02 am

  28. hahahahhaha I’m a night trader… I hate day traders.

    Day traders are despicable human beings possibly the lowest of the low. They richly deserve eternal damnation in the further reaches of hell. Death by hanging is too good for those swamp dwellers.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 2:06 am

  29. I would like to subscribe to your weekly newsletter… but I don’t believe you have one!!

    Truth is, I made a bundle of cash the old-fashioned way, and I have absolutely no idea how to make it work for me. The market makes no sense to me at all – I’m flying blind.

    Fleeced

    December 30, 2009 at 2:09 am

  30. naaa I’m a trader, wouldn’t know how to begin writing a newsletter. I think most of that stuff is junk.

    Why don’t you simply give you money out to an index fund. It’s cheap and you’ll do okay over the long term.

    My view is that you have to stay out of cash as much as possible seeing governments trash currencies.

    Perhaps your strategy should be to find an index fund and average in over the next 12 months or so.

    Buy a 1/3 now, a 1/3 in may/ June and the balance at the end of 2010. Then just leave it there and not worry about for the next 20 odd years.

    Don’t believe the bullshit about gold. Gold is a shit hedge against inflation.

    it reached 800 an ounce in late 70’s early 80’s and it’s $1,104 an ounce now. It’s been a miserable hedge against inflation over the past 30 years despite all these idiots telling people it’s great. It’s actually lost value as it should be closer to $3,000 per ounce by now.

    Conversely great stocks do well. A boring detergent maker and household products with a franchise name like Procter and Gamble is up $1,800% (approx) over the same period.

    Good stocks are the best best.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 2:23 am

  31. Fleeced:

    As far as I’m concerned the march lows were a generational that we may not see in our life times again.

    Companies like American Express reached unbelievable lows as people were pricing in a 30’s style depression.

    It reached a low of 10 bucks and it’s now 4i bucks.

    It really does seem to me that it was a generational low.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 2:29 am

  32. Does anyone else notice an air of the left turning on each other, like Hawkey and Hairshirt here, especially left warmenists now that the pressure has come on with Climategate and Nopenchangen? Similar undercurrent seems to be in the US over Climategate and ObamaCare as left-wingers look to allocate blame for the rise of Tea Parties and so forth.

    It’s just a scent on the wind, but it could be a harbinger of some interesting results coming from near and mid-term elections.

    Michael Sutcliffe

    December 30, 2009 at 10:00 am

  33. I don’t think Hawke’s changing his views, but rather sticking to his principles. I have a lot of time for Bob, though he fails to understand the point of parliament in that article. First of all, these decisions aren’t a lay down misere (ETS legislation, anyone?) and second even if they are, the point is the parliamentary record – the discussion and the recorded opposition and/or support for legislation and policy.

    Bob certainly has it right in regard to these “let them eat cake” green-hearted socialists. Hamilton’s a nasty elitist fool, while Bob has actually made substantial contributions to Australian society.

    Abu Chowdah

    December 30, 2009 at 10:19 am

  34. What I can’t understand is how Crikey can offer someone as dreadful as Hamilton a platform allowing him to spew his filthy demented crap.

    JC

    December 30, 2009 at 11:20 am

  35. Does anyone else notice an air of the left turning on each other, like Hawkey and Hairshirt here, especially left warmenists now that the pressure has come on with Climategate and Nopenchangen? Similar undercurrent seems to be in the US over Climategate and ObamaCare as left-wingers look to allocate blame for the rise of Tea Parties and so forth.

    It’s just a scent on the wind, but it could be a harbinger of some interesting results coming from near and mid-term elections.

    Yes that could happen but only because their usual opponents have become laughing stocks.

    John H.

    December 30, 2009 at 6:59 pm

  36. Hamilton is actually pretty cool if he gets up the nose of a rapacious prat like jc.

    Cyd

    December 30, 2009 at 7:00 pm

  37. It’s getting to the point where we can guess what you’ll post next Cyd. Tedium is really a killer for the young troll’s reputation. Definitely NOT the standard to adopt if you hope to get the Golden Troll award for 2009-10.

    Abu Chowdah

    December 30, 2009 at 7:34 pm

  38. what a tool you are IC.

    Cyd

    December 30, 2009 at 8:22 pm

  39. Hamilton is actually pretty cool if he gets up the nose of a rapacious prat like jc

    He’s a troll and a clown… like you Cyd.

    He trolls at Crikey abusing majority of people in the country.

    Abu, Cyd will never win the Toll of the year award as s/he’s far too dull. Anyone that reads rolling stone for the financial news then posts about it isn’t too bright.

    Jc

    December 30, 2009 at 8:32 pm

  40. Well he’s overplayed his hand in another thread and proved he’s pegasus – so I agree with your assessment that he is an intellectual lightweight JC.

    Abu Chowdah

    December 30, 2009 at 8:37 pm

  41. Okay. The insults are getting tedious. Let’s move on.

    Sinclair Davidson

    December 30, 2009 at 8:40 pm


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