catallaxy files

catallaxy in technical exile

ANNOUNCEMENT

with 166 comments

As you can see there has been a sudden and dramatic change to Catallaxy. I discovered this when I received a whole bunch of emails from regulars asking what’s happening. I’m not sure when regular programming will resume. Sorry about this.

Sinc

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Written by Admin

December 14, 2009 at 10:38 am

Posted in Uncategorized

166 Responses

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  1. weird, but a nice change of colour

    I blame some warmongers disliking some posts here.

    conspiracy!!

    pete m

    December 14, 2009 at 11:01 am

  2. I blame global warming itself.

    johno

    December 14, 2009 at 10:46 pm

  3. I’ll fill in for all the CL comments of the last month that have gone missing:

    “Warmenist hoax has been exposed… It’s all falling apart… This new religion is on its knees… Crooks… You pathetic hypocrite… It’s just a new tax… See link here (to Andrew Bolt.)… Liars…. Turnbull’s fascist party room turn….Homer you liar…Phil you idiot…Stop stalking me Reynolds…I was right, and sorry I didn’t earlier realise how ignorant you genuinely were…It’s all falling apart”

    And repeat.

    steve from brisbane

    December 14, 2009 at 11:38 pm

  4. But it’s given a wonderful opportunity to go over some hilarious comedy posts by the winged psychopath.

    BirdLab

    December 15, 2009 at 4:57 am

  5. Eep. Good luck getting it back on board!

    Andrew Carr

    December 15, 2009 at 6:39 am

  6. Clearly the end is nigh.

    TerjeP (say tay-a)

    December 15, 2009 at 8:29 am

  7. There are other WordPress sites where the same thing has occurred. It’s not just a Catallaxy problem.

    DavidLeyonhjelm

    December 15, 2009 at 8:57 am

  8. “The endis nigh” Again!

    tal

    December 15, 2009 at 10:16 am

  9. Easier to read if you ask me. Better font.

    boy on a bike

    December 15, 2009 at 10:49 am

  10. whats the problem? it looks like they have moved the site from their own servers to wordpress because that crappy spam hack kept appearing.

    drscroogemcduck

    December 15, 2009 at 11:20 am

  11. The blog got compromised one too many times and has been moved over. However there has been backup issues.

    Jason Soon

    December 15, 2009 at 10:10 pm

  12. I suspect radical climate change activists took it down because you were getting too close to the truth..

    ps. I like the “possilby related posts.”

    * Who are We ?
    * Regular bowel movements
    * Really why do we???

    Steve Edney

    December 15, 2009 at 10:40 pm

  13. Steve updates:

    – We’re all going to drown within a fortnight.

    – Little Australia’s ETS tax will save humanity and the polar bears.

    – It’s really hot in Brisbane’s summer because of Nick Minchin.

    – The science has been settled (scientist Al Gore said so and it has been confirmed by a truffle farmer).

    – Ian Plimer is wrong because he’s a big poo.

    – Add references to prostates and links to the Guardian.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 12:51 am

  14. L. Ron Hubbard of the warmening cult explains his latest lie:

    Gore admits climate figures ‘ballpark’.

    LOL.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 12:57 am

  15. CL:

    Lambert is now suggesting Plimer is fraudulent and pressing academic misconduct. Take a look at what the homunculus has written about Plimer.

    Homunculus of course was peddling Lancet well after it had been sanctioned by John Hopkins.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 1:01 am

  16. The Dreamliner takes off on its maiden flight.

    All you doubters that said it wouldn’t happen this year… Eat crow.

    Birdlab, I think you were the primary instigator of that horrifying attack on this marvelous piece of machinery.

    Would you like to eat or boiled or roasted?

    🙂

    Homer how do you eat your daily ration of crow?

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 1:24 am

  17. Oh well, since we’re just sittin’ around shootin’ the breeze, here’s a contribution from the feathered nutcase from 2006:

    I think the party ought to hire me as full-time internet crusader.

    What I’d do is just walk around from one internet cafe to the next pushing the parties policies on all the most leftist of websites.

    The net effect would be that the ETHER itself would be skewed in our direction and the left would be permanently wrong-footed.

    We have to fight on the offensive. And at the moment it is the leftists who invade our blogs and not the other way around.

    Or not much anyway.

    Because when we do go to where they are we get horribly mistreated and banned.

    Thats just one full-time wage and internet costs and transport amounting to about $50 per day max.

    Believe me. This one measure would change the political landscape of this country.

    No-one is more qualified for this job then I am. I say in all humility.

    And we ought to be able to pull funding from the coal industry and the Taiwanese.”

    https://catallaxyf.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/are-libertarian-parties-a-waste-of-time/#comment-9072

    Just imagine, if only Bird had continued to blog the entire political landscape would have changed. Shame on the LDP for failing to pay him wages plus expenses.

    It’s such a pity he was abducted by aliens.

    BirdLab

    December 16, 2009 at 1:33 am

  18. HAHAHAHA! Lambert quotes the University of Adelaide’s code of practice on research misconduct. I’d like to see it applied to Lambert himself:

    Misrepresentation : A researcher or reviewer shall not with intent to deceive, or in reckless disregard for the truth:

    (a) state or present a material or significant falsehood; (b) omit a fact so that what is stated or presented as a whole states or presents a material or significant falsehood.

    Meanwhile, Rudd’s effort at the now failed Copenhagen conference has become a comedy of loathing and irrelevance.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 3:56 am

  19. In the Spectator: Al Gore lying about malaria.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 4:02 am

  20. CL & JC – did you watch the Lateline “debate” between Plimer and Monbiot that Lambert linked to? I don’t recall seeing Monbiot being interviewed before, but he came across as pretty cool, composed and intelligent (even if he did keep interrupting to try to get Plimer to answer) as against the evasion and somewhat rattled looking Plimer.

    I find it impossible to think that anyone could say that Plimer came out of it well. Even Bolt hasn’t mentioned it (last time I looked.)

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 4:23 am

  21. Try “evasive”

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 4:24 am

  22. That’s three lies he’s been caught out on this week.

    Even the chief scientist whose paper Gore was referring to when Gore lied about the rate of North Pole melt ripped into him for blatant dishonesty.

    He also lied saying the oldest email in the cliamtegate saga is 10 years old when the truth is it’s 2 months.

    Gore is just reverting to his old form of lying when the truth is inconvenient. It’s basically the reason he lost the 2000 election when he should have romped it in.

    He can’t help himself. It’s also the reason why Shiny likes him….. It’s his lying.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 4:29 am

  23. Steve:

    No, I haven’t seen the debate and quite frankly I’m really not that interested. I think Plimer is wrong on AGW. I also think moobat is fucking nuts so I don’t see any reason to watch the debate.

    The point I was trying to make that the homunculus, who you seem to knee-pad for, is accusing Plimer of being a fraud as well as all the other obsessive things the little prick has said in the past.

    Plimer has the right to be wrong and not treated as though he’s the latest former Nazi camp guard that you and others seem to.

    Seriously steve, you guys need to see shrinks as you require medical advice on how to deal with obsessive compulsive behavior that’s teemed up with fear of the apocalypse.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 4:37 am

  24. JC, I would suggest your unerring reaction to mere mention of Lambert is the thing that shows more signs of unbalance.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 5:02 am

  25. “… Monbiot… came across as pretty cool, composed and intelligent…

    He says he is haunted by dreams of giant cows. (Probably letting off giant farts but he didn’t say).

    Poor old George.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 5:09 am

  26. Hey, good thinking Messrs Rudd and Turnbull!

    THE amended emissions trading scheme put forward by the Government threatens to wipe off about 3 per cent of the value of Australia’s top 200 companies, according to research to be released today.

    Thank heavens for this “pure market” initiative.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 5:12 am

  27. oh yea, that’s right Steve, Don’t mention the fact that the homunculus you knee pad to hadn’t published even in his specialty for the past decade (until recently ,or so he claims which would need to be verified) is obsessing to the point where he calls an accomplished geologist a fraud, runs countless blog entries about Plimer, carefully crafts the comments at his site to allow only for the abusive and allows people to present google maps where Plimer resides and you suggest I have the problem.

    Are you fucked in the head too, Steve? It’s a serious question.

    Lambert (USNW) to all intents and purposes hasn’t published a thing in IT, runs a blog trying to destroy people’s reputations and you think others are a problem?

    Yes, you’re really fucked in the head, aren’t you.

    The guy you support is the equivalent to intellectual dog turd.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:19 am

  28. Plimers behaviour on Lateline was disgraceful, he couldnt answer one question without diverting onto a meaningless tirade of gobbledegook.

    He cooked the facts in his own book

    He is supposed to be a scientist?

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 5:22 am

  29. Thanks for the suggestion to the debate, Steve.

    Plimer scored on points s far as I can see. He Ko’ed Moonbat the moment he asked why it was that he had all these questions about Plimer’s book yet for years performed fellatio on the CRU unit without even uttering a question to defend their what looks like spurious research.

    Plimer was also quite clear, but wasn’t given a chance to fully respond to Moonbat’s claim about volcanoes producing an estimated 130 times more co2 than humans despite Moobat’s contention that the US geological research unit suggests they have measured it.

    Plimer was contending that yes the US unit had measured undersea volcanoes but it would be impossible for them tho account for the lot as there are something like 65,000. Plimer was referring to geologists estimates and that the US Unit’s accounting was totally incomplete. Plimer’s qssertion is plausible while Moonbat is the complete fraud; journalist posing as a scientist.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:31 am

  30. Which facts did he cook, rog? Can you do this on your own without reverting to another blog?

    Name three facts he cooked. in your own words.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:32 am

  31. “Birdlab, I think you were the primary instigator of that horrifying attack on this marvelous piece of machinery.

    Would you like to eat or boiled or roasted?”

    You’ve substantially overstated the case I think JC. But since we seem to be the only two aviation enthusiasts here, meh, whatever.

    It’s great to see it off the ground and I can’t wait to see the footage. Glad Boeing finally got it’s act together.

    I’ll eat anything, BTW.

    BirdLab

    December 16, 2009 at 5:33 am

  32. You need to read a bit more JC

    Plimer is a clown

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 5:33 am

  33. It probably went over your head JC but

    Monbiot asked Plimer if he still stands by his assertions on volcanoes and Plimer refused to answer.

    Monbiot asked Plimer about the latest findings from the WMO and Plimer refused to answer.

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 5:40 am

  34. Here’s the question the crack interviewer, Tony Jones, forgot to ask George Moonbat.

    ” George Moonbat for years you have been relying on CRU data and information as well as climate science methodology to support your contention there is runaway warming. Not once , after browsing through your numerous articles, did I find even one concern you raised about the unit. You have directly quoted from their work, which we now know cannot be supported by hard data as it’s suddenly gone missing, what do you say about this and why should anyone ever find you credible again about anything topic to do with climate science let alone any science. In short, George Moonbat would you say your reputation is shot to pieces?”

    That would of course have been the appropriate questions to ask rather than trying to turn it into a beat up on Plimer. But of course fatty Jones didn’t.

    Why would that be Steve, Rog?

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:40 am

  35. Plimer isn’t a clown, Rog. you are.

    He wrote a book which in all probability is wrong. However that doesn’t make him a clown as much as it makes you one. Getting science wrong is a bad thing.

    ————

    Plimer answered Moobat’s questions about the volcanoes however it was answered in piecemeal as fatty Jones and Moobat kept on interrupting.

    Plimer basically suggested that the accounting done by the US survey is one part of the add, but it’s materially incomplete as there are an estimated (only) 63,000 active volcanoes undersea which haven’t been accounted for and emit tons of Co2.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:45 am

  36. oops…. ISN’T a bad thing.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:46 am

  37. I was only kidding, Birdlab. There were strong rumors even up to last week that the bird wouldn’t fly this year. I kind of think it flew with duct tape as the production line is still essentially halted, so i think it was a bullshit flight which is why a dumped my stock last night. I’ll look at watch to see what happens now.

    Somehow I don’t want to fly on that first plane and I’m sure it will be sold to some mid east Sheik 🙂

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:53 am

  38. You need to read a bit more JC

    Linking to Michael Ashely’s review who immediately goes into a sermon about climate science being about the “future of this planet”.

    And Rog wants me to accept the credibility of another religious nutball who often writes alarmist nonsense and isn’t himself a climate scientist.

    It really is a religion.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 5:57 am

  39. JC – I think you just reconfirmed my point. Ta.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 6:32 am

  40. No, steve, it’s the other way around. You confirmed my point that you’re a religious nutball.

    I at least recognize that Ian Plimer may be wrong while at the same time offer a modicum of respect for a guy that put a lot of work in a book.

    You on the other hand are quite prepared to perform fellatio on the most unsavory characters in this hole debate as long as they belong to the Exclusive Climate Alarmist Brethren…. ECAB.

    Your compass is pointing the wrong way, dude.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 6:38 am

  41. Barry proves Kevin’s stimulus is crapola:

    BARACK Obama’s remark that demand for pink batts from Australia has boosted their manufacture in the US shows the Rudd Government’s stimulus is misdirected, says the federal opposition.

    Oops.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 6:43 am

  42. The disgrace was Fat Tony. He doesn’t even pretend to be a reporter anymore. He’s deeply – almost disturbingly – committed to the warmening faith system. It wouldn’t surprise me if Plimer struggled to converse with George Moonbat – in the same way that Einstein would struggle to converse with Keith Olbermann.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 6:47 am

  43. It wouldn’t surprise me if Plimer struggled to converse with George Moonbat – in the same way that Einstein would struggle to converse with Keith Olbermann.

    hahahahah that’s the Olbermmann who says he attended an Ivy league school when in fact it was the agricultural school attached to Cornell which had a media studies department. LOL

    Actually there was a bit of that judging from the video, CL. It looked as though Plimer was experiencing the same sort of exasperation he would have experienced as a professor of geology with a failing kid. Fatty Jones also fell into that camp. Fatty of course doesn’t even pretend he’s even handed anymore as he knows the ALP won’t go after his job.

    —————-

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 7:01 am

  44. Christmas Island at bursting point with the umber of refugees.

    So far still no sign of David Marr. (Only one time attacking John Howard recently for Rudd’s ballless strategy).

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/latest-asylum-boat-arrival-pushes-christmas-island-to-the-brink/story-e6frg6nf-1225811094239

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 7:08 am

  45. You really are digging yourself in deeper JC

    On Plimer you just said “He wrote a book which in all probability is wrong.”

    And then you go and defend Plimer

    Has the part of your brain labelled “logic” been removed, or did it just never exist?

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 7:23 am

  46. Mother Mackillop will be given the nod this Saturday CL

    tal

    December 16, 2009 at 7:24 am

  47. No Rog, you clown.

    I don’t think you even understand Plimer’s argument and the points he used which is why I can offer an opinion and ask you that question at the same time.

    So you don’t have answer without peaking into some blog, right?

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 7:28 am

  48. “I was only kidding, Birdlab.”

    I know that, ya big lug.

    BirdLab

    December 16, 2009 at 7:37 am

  49. Hang on JC, you asked me to supply you with points where Plimer was wrong and I gave you points.

    He was wrong because he could not answer the questions on science.

    He was wrong because he could not substantiate the claims made in his book on science

    You are just like just Huckleberry Joy, when presented with data you just blow raspberries.

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 7:38 am

  50. I haven’t seen the footage yet JC, but there’s lots of comment about the amount of wing-flex.Could mean something, could mean nothing.

    Flightblogger in Seattle here:

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/12/video-787-takes-to-the-sky.html#comments

    BirdLab

    December 16, 2009 at 7:40 am

  51. Oh good Lord. CL is making some sort of analogy between Plimer and Einstein. I’m marking that down on my calendar as the most ludicrous comparison you’ve ever made.

    JC (and CL): have a look at the graphs presented here:

    http://tamino.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/do-you-believe-ian-plimer/

    and just admit that Plimer is either:

    a. pulling figures out of his arse and won’t admit it, or
    b. by remarkable co-incidence, all “unmonitored” undersea volcanoes have starting spewing out CO2 at a constant elevated rate since industrialisation got underway.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 7:43 am

  52. JC, why should I “respect” a professor who has (presumably) done credible science in his life, but then near the end of his career writes a book pushing an alleged scientific response to an issue with major political consequences yet refuses to publicly respond to clear challenges that he has made errors, not given references for some claims, and misrepresented other people’s findings? (Don’t say he had no chance to respond last night; Monbiot’s and other’s specific criticisms have been out on the public record for months. He has not answered them in any forum.)

    There is every reason to believe that his book is a sloppy work of polemic, and a great discredit to him as a scientist.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 8:02 am

  53. He was wrong because he could not answer the questions on science.

    Meaning: Tony Jones and intellectual buffoon George Monbiot (who says he dreams about gigantic cows in today’s Age) were not on his level. Scientists are often not great at communication, Rog, but your claim that Plimer the bona fide scientist was no match for the Cow Dreamer is, frankly, batty.

    Oh good Lord. CL is making some sort of analogy between Plimer and Einstein.

    No, I was making some sort of comparison about the likely efficacy of a conversation between an actual scientist and someone who is a phony “reporter” for a left-wing media organ.

    I note that Steve is strangely silent on the three media humiliations of Al Gore in the past fortnight. Once again, Steve proves that warmening is coming to pieces and lying – like Al did yesterday at the failed Copenhagen conference – is the only way out. Sadly, it just isn’t working anymore.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 8:07 am

  54. CL, you really are sinking with the ship.

    Plimer could not confirm the science as presented by Jones et al

    It was not the science of Jones et al that was in dispute – they have no science.

    It is the way Plimer quotes the science of others that is in dispute.

    Truth is Plimer is a liar and you choose to defend his lies.

    rog

    December 16, 2009 at 8:49 am

  55. Oh FFS Steve, you present charts with 1000 fucking year time spans and expect to use those charts to verify if Plimer is right or wrong in his claim. You numbnut, how on earth would that time frame show a daily movement?

    I’m not suggesting you need to respect Plimer, but he shouldn’t be treated like a nazi camp commandant.

    As for Moonbat… the man is a fucking lunatic. he isn’t a journalist, he’s political advocate writing for a far left newspaper.

    So far you haven’t responded to the comment that he not once dared question the years of CRU’s fraud and like you was prepared to knee down and blow those fraudsters.

    As for Lambert… his accusation against Plimer (as a fraud) could more easily be turned around against him. I think Lambert is a total fraud. A phony and a dishonest sack of turd who poisons the debate about everything he touches.

    He was quite prepared to defend Lancet even after Johns Hopkins and sanctioned the study as crap and only backed away after it was explained to him that he didn’t even understand academic behavior in publishing.

    The turd lies and distorts at the drop of a hat like he was found doing when he was referring to the release of the emails as theft but at earlier times was applauding similar actions when it suited his political positions.

    He has the ethical morals of a skunk, yet you’re motivated to defend that loathsome creep.

    You don’t need to lie with pigs to support the idea that there is a risk CO2 is deleterious to the atmosphere over a long period of time, Steve. All you need to do is think through the issue.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 9:07 am

  56. What exactly was he lying about, Rog? Explain the lie.

    Explain what lie Plimer told and what the truth is. Simply saying he didn’t answer the question is not itself proof that he lied.

    You need to show he said X when X is an explicit lie and Y is the true answer that Plimer knew to be.

    Me thinks you have no freakin idea what you’re talking about. None.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 9:11 am

  57. Thanks Birdlab.

    Look a I took some decent cash out of the trade, but I feel two strong emotions about Boeing.

    There could be some real serious risks that we don’t about in respect of the 787 or if there aren’t any technical hitches the stock is going to zoom much, much higher.

    So far, over the years, Beoing has been less than forthcoming about this plane, so it worries me. If there’s a hitch, the stock is heading back down to 35-40 bucks as no one will forgive the lying. If there are no hitches the stock heads north in a big way.

    I honestly can’t decide.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 9:18 am

  58. He has the ethical morals of a skunk, yet you’re motivated to defend that loathsome creep.

    Yeah well I saw that interview and Plimer did himself no favours. He refused to address an outright challenge and engaged in obfuscation to try and hide the fact that he couldn’t answer a criticism that underlay one of his key arguments. He may be a scientist but it seems to me he was more interested in defending his many directorships on various mining company boards.

    Why should any person rely on such forums to inform debate on AGW?

    John H.

    December 16, 2009 at 9:21 am

  59. Steve:

    Answer exactly how you feel about Moonbat’s behavior towards Jones and the rest of the science version of Madoff.

    No,, the silence won’t work anymore.

    Even an entire MIT panel discussing climategate said they were totally disturbed by their actions, yet you remain quite dodging every question about them hoping it will just go away.

    One panelist suggested those associated with climategate either directly or indirectly should be thrown out of every single association they belong to and the others agreed.

    Listen to them. These people are not sceptics except for Richard Lindzen which shows you don’t have to be a sceptic to believe there is AGW and think fraudulent science and related thuggery is unacceptable behavior.

    http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/730

    Kerry Emanuel ’76, PhD ’78
    Breene M. Kerr Professor of Atmospheric Science, Department of Earth, Atmospheric Science and Planetary Sciences, MIT

    Emanuel received his S.B. in Earth and Planetary Sciences from MIT, and earned a Ph.D. in Meteorology from MIT in 1978.
    Judith Layzer PhD ’99
    Edward and Joyce Linde Career Development Associate Professor of Environmental Policy, Department of Urban Studies and Planning, MIT
    With JoAnn Carmin, Layzer co-directs the Environmental Policy and Planning group’s Society, Business and the Environment Project. She also directs the soon-to-be-unveiled Urban Sustainability Stephen Ansolabehere
    Professor of Political Science, MIT
    Professor of Government, Harvard University
    Stephen Ansolabehere studies elections, democracy, and the mass media. He is coauthor (with Shanto Iyengar) of The Media Game (Macmillan, 1993) and of Going Negative: How Political Advertising Alienates and Polarizes the American Electorate (The Free Press, 1996). Ansolabehere is also a member of the Cal Tech/MIT Voting Project. which was established in 2000 to prevent a recurrence of the problems that threatened the 2000 US Presidential election.

    Ronald G. Prinn SCD ’71
    TEPCO Professor of Atmospheric Science, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, MIT Director, Center for Global Change Science; Co-Director of the MIT Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change
    Ronald Prinn’s research interests incorporate the chemistry, dynamics, and physics of the atmospheres of the Earth and other planets, and the chemical evolution of atmospheres. He is currently involved in a wide range of projects in atmospheric chemistry and biogeochemistry, planetary science, climate science, and integrated assessment of science and policy regarding climate change.

    Richard Lindzen
    Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, MIT
    Richard Lindzen studies the role of the tropics in mid-latitude weather and global heat transport, the moisture budget and its role in global change, the origins of ice ages, seasonal effects in atmospheric transport, stratospheric waves, and the observational determination of climate sensitivity. He pioneered the study of how ozone photochemistry, radiative transfer and dynamics interact with each other. He is currently studying what determines the pole to equator temperature difference, the nonlinear equilibration of baroclinic instability and the contribution of such instabilities to global heat transport. He has developed models for the Earth’s climate with specific concern for the stability of the ice caps, the sensitivity to increases in CO2, the origin of the 100,000 year cycle in glaciation, and the maintenance of regional variations in climate.

    Yet you defend fraud Lambert and automatically putting yourself opposite people such as these.

    Steve, you’re a religious nutball.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 9:31 am

  60. The church of climatology

    tal

    December 16, 2009 at 9:59 am

  61. it’s fucking amazing, Tal.

    You don’t get people more at the top of their field in science and political science than MIT and they are appalled at what they have witnessed in those emails.

    Ronald Prinn was one of the lead authors in the IPCC and was absolutely disgusted in terms the disrepute these thugs and fraudsters have wrought on climate science and science in particular.

    Everyone of these people were dry retching at what they have witnessed both in their thug behavior, data manipulation and then tossing it out.

    Steve supports them and defends them, but he also supports and defends gamers and frauds like Lambert (USW). I’m using the same word the homunculus used to attack plimer by the way, so if anyone suggests I’m being to harsh on him they will need to defend his use of the word against Ian Plimer. However I’m being more accurate.

    Steve slinks away of course.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 10:09 am

  62. Did anyone see this on Crikey?
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/15/hamilton-the-end-of-the-third-world/

    Hamilton tells us about gallant little Tuvalu, facing inundation as ocean levels rise. But in Copenhagen it rises up and leads developing nations in a walk out.
    Funny, but in other stories on this event I found no mention of Tuvalu.
    Hamilton does mention that leader of the Tuvalu delegation is Ian Fry, former Greenpeace employee now part time PhD student living in Queanbeyan.
    Just possibly a friend of Hamilton?
    And if you want to make your contribution to COP15, you can send 150 characters through this site
    http://en.cop15.dk/climate+greetings

    ken nielsen

    December 16, 2009 at 10:31 am

  63. “Dr”.(Money bags) Pachauri doing his “best” to save the planet from itself while collecting a lot of loot as the Dr. goes along.

    What a piece of work is our Dr. Pachauri.

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/12/vast-nexus-of-influence.html

    There sure is money is this racket.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 11:19 am

  64. …the science as presented by Jones et al.

    LOL. “Science” presented by Tony Jones and George Monbiot.

    In 2006, Monbiot was advocating the abolition of sport in favour of ultimate frisbee. He thought it would help stop the warmening!

    I’m not sure which is more bizarre anymore. Twice-failed divinity student Al Gore being the leader of the warmening cult; Steve’s claim that Nick Minchin is making Brisbane hot; Lambert’s hilarious reference to academic malfeasance (a bit like Joseph Mengele criticising someone for a breach of the Hippocratic Oath); or Monbiot’s new fear of gigantic cows.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 11:22 am

  65. George moonbat says:

    The angry men know that this golden age has gone; but they cannot find the words for the constraints they hate. Clutching their copies of Atlas Shrugged, they flail around, accusing those who would impede them of communism, fascism, religiosity, misanthropy, but knowing at heart that these restrictions are driven by something far more repulsive to the unrestrained man: the decencies we owe to other human beings.

    I fear this chorus of bullies but I also sympathise. I lead a mostly peaceful life, but my dreams are haunted by giant aurochs.

    Shorter Steve: Plimer’s the fraud.

    Shorter Rog… It’s all Abbott’s fault.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 11:29 am

  66. George moonbat:

    I don’t want to be a killjoy and I recognise that many sports are considered a matter of life and death by their fans. But climate change really is a matter of life and death. However important the next fixture might seem, it doesn’t compare to the drying out of sub-Saharan Africa or the flooding of some of the world’s major cities … To avert [global warming], the latest figures suggest, we need a 90 per cent cut in carbon emissions from every economic sector in the rich world by 2030. And that, I am sorry to say, includes sport.

    Shorter Steve and Fatty Jones.. Yep Plimer’s a fraud.

    It really is a religion, however I’m no expecting these “effetes” to be mounting any religious crusade as I haven’t seen any evidence any of them able to man-up.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 11:37 am

  67. Tal, that’s good news.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 11:41 am

  68. it doesn’t compare to the drying out of sub-Saharan Africa or the flooding of some of the world’s major cities

    Well, the Sahara is more likely to shrink under global warming, not grow. There is already some evidence of a shrinking in the size of the Sahara. If the Sahel advances North rather than being absorbed by the Sahara, this will sure be a good thing for Africa. Global warming: good news for coloured folk.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2811

    Michael Fisk

    December 16, 2009 at 12:14 pm

  69. Believe it or not, JC, I do have a life beyond answering every excitable outburst of yours on here. I told you before, I never took Lambert’s side on the Lancet Iraq survey; but I happen to think he’s right on Plimer, and more often than not, on AGW generally. I haven’t followed every single post he’s made on topics that don’t interest me, so I can’t really speak for his general character. But it is kind of half amusing/half disturbing watching you absolutely lose it whenever he is mentioned.

    As for Monbiot: I haven’t agreed with everything he’s written over the years either. I even think he was stupid to supply selectively-quoting denialists with ready made (and misleading) quotes from his columns about how upset he was with some of the stuff in the emails. But his conduct with Plimer (setting the series of reasonable questions as a preliminary to any debate) was wise and really showed up Plimer as an evasive and completely untrustworthy authority on this topic.

    You seem to see malice behind everything CRU has done (or wished was done), and there is no point in discussing that further with you. After all, at the end of the day you think AGW is a concern, and Plimer is probably wrong, so I’m not going round and round the mulberry bush with you again about the topics.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 12:23 pm

  70. Steve:

    So you can’t really answer to any of the issues I left with you. I can understand why of course.

    Shorter Steve:

    Plimer’s a fraud.. everything Plimer said is fraudulent, but the guys at CRU? They were just misunderstood and everything was taken out of context even the missing data.

    This is religion and work everyone.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 12:29 pm

  71. Re: Lambert:

    I don’t lose it. In fact I’m just amused by the little fraud and get a kick out of presenting his dishonesty. It’s a pass time in between reading boring stock research.

    Even one of his co-workers at UNSW has emailed thanking me for exposing the little twerp.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  72. CL: you also seem to be short on memory when it comes to things I have made plain before. I have never cared for Gore’s role in this; I have never watched his documentary or bought his books; I actually agree with some of the criticisms that his lifestyle does not sit well with his professed concerns. I mean, he was always a bit flaky, inventing the internet and so on, so he has not played any significant role in my evolving views on AGW. He is, after all, just a populariser of the topic, never pretending to be a scientist.

    So, if he is unimportant to me, why should I be embarrassed about his mistakes at Copenhagen? I say that he should be viewed as unimportant by everyone. And I say much the same about Flannery.

    There is a point in noting their mistakes and hypocrisies, but it is at heart all a side issue from the main game.

    You seem to find it hard to understand that a person can have a nuanced view of a big topic like this: not believing every spokesman or claim made on the side that I think is right overall, and still pressing the case that it is something that deserves a serious and quite urgent response.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 12:38 pm

  73. Plimer was awful last night. There are some many lines of attack you can launch against AGW it isn’t funny. You need to choose which few you’re going to pursue and stick to them. He was all over the place. It was almost unbearable to watch. He evaded answering clear questions; questions he could clearly answer to his own favour. The question about current temp. in the last decade show at best a decline if you begin the trend line in 2001 or stasis if you do so in at 2000. The trend line when you combine all four datasets falls outside the confidence limits of the IPCC projections in AR4. Which is a nice side glance, you may choose to pursue, regarding Trenberth’s ‘travesty’. But he simply failed to do this. Of course, there was more he could have done but he appeared like a kangaroo caught in the headlights.

    dover_beach

    December 16, 2009 at 1:01 pm

  74. Speaking of travesties, when will anyone in the MSM investigate the many connections of one R. Pachauri?

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/12/vast-nexus-of-influence.html

    How he can continue as Chair of the IPCC is a travesty.

    dover_beach

    December 16, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  75. Dover;

    It’s true that he didn’t present well, however he was being attacked and interupted from both sides.

    Jones of course avoided the most damaging question of all to moonbat by not asking him why as a journalist he had allowed decaying carcasses at CRU to get away with it so far and not questioning them further of their methods and data. Of course Fatty Jones didn’t do that because he would be implicated too like all the times he brings forward his ventriloquist doll- Waldo Karoly or hot rocks entrpeneur, Tim self-Flattery.

    The point is that Plimer wasn’t great, but he was hardly a fraudster, which is what some of these trogs and moonbat are accusing him of..

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm

  76. AGAIN.

    Al Gore caught lying.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 2:53 pm

  77. Most egghead scientists are no good on television.

    Even pretend scientists are hopeless communicators. Think of Lambert at the Sydney Writers’ Festival.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 2:56 pm

  78. But Plimer is the fraud the climatologist. The high priest can’t be lying. Lol.

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 2:58 pm

  79. oops… to the religious climatologists…

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 2:58 pm

  80. Rudd signing up for – wait for it – a jet and shipping tax (plus a global financial tax) in order to pay our imaginary “climate debt” to Third World dictatorships.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 3:00 pm

  81. The festival in all its splendor.
    THE Copenhagen climate summit was pretty much summed up in the high-level segment yesterday when Penny WongÂ’s speech was interrupted by whistles and chanting and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez got a standing ovation.

    hen President Chavez brought the house down.

    When he said the process in Copenhagen was “not democratic, it is not inclusive, but isn’t that the reality of our world, the world is really and imperial dictatorship…down with imperial dictatorships” he got a rousing round of applause.

    When he said there was a “silent and terrible ghost in the room” and that ghost was called capitalism, the applause was deafening.

    But then he wound up to his grand conclusion – 20 minutes after his 5 minute speaking time was supposed to have ended and after quoting everyone from Karl Marx to Jesus Christ – “our revolution seeks to help all people…socialism, the other ghost that is probably wandering around this room, that’s the way to save the planet, capitalism is the road to hell….let’s fight against capitalism and make it obey us.” He won a standing ovation.

    Penny Wong gets booed and Chavez gets a standing ovation. Anyone still believe this isn’t a circus?

    Jc

    December 16, 2009 at 3:11 pm

  82. Please ring the Liberal Party and tell them to oppose the Internet filter.

    http://blog.libertarian.org.au/2009/12/17/where-is-abbott-on-internet-censorship/

    TerjeP (say tay-a)

    December 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm

  83. When he said there was a “silent and terrible ghost in the room” and that ghost was called capitalism, the applause was deafening.

    Well, we should thank Hugo. Because that, folks, is what this whole ludicrous charade is really all about.

    C.L.

    December 16, 2009 at 5:19 pm

  84. Did anyone see this on Crikey?
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/12/15/hamilton-the-end-of-the-third-world/

    Hamilton tells us about gallant little Tuvalu, facing inundation as ocean levels rise. But in Copenhagen it rises up and leads developing nations in a walk out.
    Funny, but in other stories on this event I found no mention of Tuvalu.
    Hamilton does mention that leader of the Tuvalu delegation is Ian Fry, former Greenpeace employee now part time PhD student living in Queanbeyan.
    Just possibly a friend of Hamilton?

    ken nielsen

    December 16, 2009 at 6:25 pm

  85. While Pilmer came across as an old man who couldn’t put his thoughts together (nice touch letting him on with a crumpled tie ABC) it was also obvious that Jones and Monboit had worked on the interview beforehand. The handoffs were quite obvious.

    Entropy

    December 16, 2009 at 8:19 pm

  86. “It’s true that he didn’t present well, however he was being attacked and interupted from both sides.”

    JC, that’s true, but if I were Plimer I’d ignore their attacks (spoiling measures) and continue to attack AGW. I will add this though; it wasn’t so much a debate as a roast of Plimer (entropy may be right; Jones always appears coached when the issue of climate change is involved).

    “Most egghead scientists are no good on television.”

    CL, Lindzen always does well to my mind. McIntyre and McKitrick are also effective. The most effective communicator would be Monkton however.

    dover_beach

    December 16, 2009 at 9:34 pm

  87. db: It could have been a debate if Plimer had, like, answered the questions.

    By the way, I trust you have noted the response to the Greenland ice core post at Skeptical Science. Someone in comments (also at comments at the WUWT post too) has been pointing out that adding the instrument record sends the 20th century temperatures up past the MWP, and (I think) past earlier warming periods too. Just as I suspected.

    http://tinyurl.com/yekake3

    I forget why you think that adding CO2 can’t change pre-existing cycles. Maybe because it was completely unconvincing.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 10:19 pm

  88. By the way, I’ll display more nuance now.

    I agree that the African and other developing nations seem to have come to Copenhagen with a “shake down the rich guys” attitude, yet the rest of the world has good reason to doubt that large transfers of money for environment reasons would actually be capable of being used for good environmental ends in many of those poorly governed nations.

    This UN style mentality is unhelpful in dealing with the actual issue of major emitters cutting back quickly on actual emissions.

    I think Lomborg is sometimes wrong and sometimes right. He is probably right in his position that worrying about setting binding agreements that won’t be met is unhelpful. A simple form of carbon tax to be used directly for research and deployment of clean energy, with some sort of arrangement for cheap technology transfer to developing nations, is probably just the simplest, most direct thing to do.

    All these things are worth debate. But the first hurdle is to get people like CL and Db to acknowledge that there is a problem to deal with in the first place.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 10:35 pm

  89. Steve, I agreed with you right up until your last sentence.
    What does it matter what C.L. and db think? They are entitled to think what they like.
    One thing that does bother me about all this is the way many (not all) people on the AGW side seem to want to arm wrestle the sceptics to submission, as if that was the most important thing.
    Worse are those who need to paint sceptics as venal or evil, rather than mistaken.

    PS I also don’t agree with Lomborg about funding of research. He is after all a socialist and believes government can do good work. I have yet to see a convincing example.

    Ken Nielsen

    December 16, 2009 at 10:44 pm

  90. “He is after all a socialist and believes government can do good work. I have yet to see a convincing example.”

    Um, does World War 2 and rebuilding Europe after it count?

    And to the extent that skeptics want their nations to do nothing at all, and the rest of us think it is a really serious matter, of course they are worth arm wrestling in a collective sense.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 11:04 pm

  91. “It could have been a debate if Plimer had, like, answered the questions.”

    It would have been better had Plimer answered the questions he was asked, I’ve been perfectly clear about that, but then the atmosphere generated on the program was inquisitorial rather than adversarial with Plimer in the dock being examined by the plaintiff (Monbiot) and by the judge (Jones). That is hardly conducive for a fair debate.

    “By the way, I trust you have noted the response to the Greenland ice core post at Skeptical Science. Someone in comments (also at comments at the WUWT post too) has been pointing out that adding the instrument record sends the 20th century temperatures up past the MWP, and (I think) past earlier warming periods too. Just as I suspected.”

    Steve from B, you are mistaken, adding the instrumental record for Central Greenland doesn’t do that at all. In the figure you link to, the MWP is still at least a half a degree warmer (the MWP peaking at about 1070 AD). And the RWP was higher again for Central Greenland than the MWP. You are, again, mistaken; just as I suspected.

    “I forget why you think that adding CO2 can’t change pre-existing cycles. Maybe because it was completely unconvincing.”

    Maybe it was because I never said that. What I did say was that if these cycles appeared more or less insensitive to changes in CO2 in the past we have good reason for thinking that they will be more or less insensitive to changes in CO2 in the future. You remain unconvinced despite the straightforward reasoning.

    dover_beach

    December 16, 2009 at 11:23 pm

  92. test

    Sinclair Davidson

    December 16, 2009 at 11:27 pm

  93. OK, Steve, governments are sometimes good at winning wars.
    Tho we’ve really got to go back to WW2 to find a convincing example on our side.
    They are generally lousy at directing research so rather than do what L suggests I’d rather a carbon tax to give incentive to research.

    ken nielsen

    December 16, 2009 at 11:38 pm

  94. Just to be clear, DB, genuine question – do you have a source for the Central Greenland instrument record? There was a graph by Bill in comments at the WUWT post that tacked on a general Greenland temperature rise. But I am not sure that I have seen one for Central Greenland.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 11:39 pm

  95. Ken, more directly on point than just “winning wars”, I should add that WW2 did involve lots of urgent research too (radar refined, code breaking, Manhattan project). And post WW2, NASA getting to the Moon and back within 9 years or so seems a pretty good example of successful government directed research too.

    steve from brisbane

    December 16, 2009 at 11:42 pm

  96. Governments do a pretty good job at providing roads, hospitals, police, education, water, elecricity networks etc.

    I now wait for the collective head explosion from the freedom fighters against taxeater oppression and how the private sector does everything better.

    sdfc

    December 16, 2009 at 11:56 pm

  97. “Just to be clear, DB, genuine question – do you have a source for the Central Greenland instrument record? There was a graph by Bill in comments at the WUWT post that tacked on a general Greenland temperature rise. But I am not sure that I have seen one for Central Greenland.”

    This is getting repetitive; one of the things that exasperates me regarding the ‘GHGs dominates the climate side of the debate’ is the unwillingness to concede a single point. There is no graph that includes the entirety of the 20th century temp derived from ice cores. The one we’ve looked at ends at 1905. GRIP ice core ends in 1950. I gave a link to the NRC panel report to you the other day; it has since disappeared, I will give it to you gain.

    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=65

    Greenland had a pronounced period of warmth around A.D. 1000, a cool period from 1600 through 1900, and a modest 20th century warming.

    I was prepared to concede a whole degree of warming to you the other day for the 20thC. It still falls below the peak just after 1000AD for central Greenland.

    dover_beach

    December 17, 2009 at 12:03 am

  98. “Governments do a pretty good job at providing roads, hospitals, police, education, water, elecricity networks etc. ”

    Where do you live sdsc? Obviously not in NSW. Tho I feel strongly about this, I don’t want to broaden the argument.
    My point in this context was that governments are not good at choosing and managing research projects. They want to pick winners and they let costs get out of control (among other failures).

    Now, if you want to quote the Manhattan project, I’ll agree that wars do tend to produce better focus. But they are a helluva price to pay to get a bit of research done.

    ken nielsen

    December 17, 2009 at 12:16 am

  99. Steve, I’ve conceded the war point.
    The moon landing was not, according to my readings, a major research project. Because of the short time available, they did it with technology known at the start.
    The computer systems, by the time of the landing, were prehistoric.

    ken nielsen

    December 17, 2009 at 12:20 am

  100. My point in this context was that governments are not good at choosing and managing research projects

    Until the mid-90s, more than half of medical and pharmaceutical research in the US was sponsored by Govt. I dare say that there’d be a similar investment in other scientific fields.

    THR

    December 17, 2009 at 12:29 am

  101. SDFC:

    There won’t be any explosion. We feel the some emotion as we do when we seen a drunk stumble and hit his head on the sidewalk. A sort of pity.
    ————-

    DB;

    Funny but I’ve also thought that Fatty Jones is being coached and it was obvious Fatty jones and Moobat had discussed the interview strategy.

    I also think Fatty Jones gets a lots of his questions from “Waldo” Karoly as those two mutton heads seem to know each other from their body language…. Waldo Karoly for instance never appears to be concerned about a question and fatty Jones seems to know the answer before hand. ….. nodding his head even before Waldo answers.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 12:56 am

  102. Climate scientist, mass murderer Robert Mugabe, expresses his concern about the warmening.

    “When these capitalist gods of carbon burp and belch their dangerous emissions, it’s we, the lesser mortals of the developing sphere who gasp and sink and eventually die.”

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 12:59 am

  103. I hope this guy is writing tongue in cheek, otherwise he’s a humourless twerp who shouldn’t be let near children

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/santa-promotes-obesity-academic-20091217-kymq.html

    Santa Claus has been accused of acting in ways that could “damage millions of lives”.

    As the mythical man in red zooms around the planet delivering gifts, he is an unwitting promoter of obesity, unhealthy products, disease and even drink driving, according to an Australian academic.

    “Other dangerous activities that Santa could be accused of promoting include speeding, disregard for road rules and extreme sports such as roof surfing and chimney jumping,” said Dr Nathan Grills, public health fellow at Monash University’s Department of Epidemiology and Preventative Medicine.

    “Despite the risks of high speed air travel, Santa is never depicted wearing a seatbelt or helmet.”

    In a paper published by the British Medical Journal, Dr Grills said Santa Claus’ contemporary image became cemented in the public consciousness through a series of Coca Cola advertisements that began in the 1930s.

    Jason Soon

    December 17, 2009 at 1:03 am

  104. He has to be be taking the piss Jason

    tal

    December 17, 2009 at 1:07 am

  105. Robert Mugabe, is now a global warming advocate?

    Steve from Brisbane, do you agree with Bob Mugabe, Hugo Chavez and Uncle A from Iran?

    The climate festival is just a beat up on capitalism, that’s all.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 1:13 am

  106. LOL. This beats even Al Gore for being the whackiest lie of the year:

    President Obama: Federal Government ‘Will Go Bankrupt’ if ObamaCare is not passed.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 1:14 am

  107. Mugabe is banned from Europe, he is using the festival so he can do some Christmas shopping

    tal

    December 17, 2009 at 1:15 am

  108. CL, imagine the great gnashing of teeth if Barnaby said that.

    dover_beach

    December 17, 2009 at 1:24 am

  109. “Mugabe is banned from Europe, he is using the festival so he can do some Christmas shopping”

    Tal, your cynicism is adorable.

    dover_beach

    December 17, 2009 at 1:29 am

  110. For any of anyone that is constantly harping on about how we need to spend a great deal more money on education, school dunnies and more teachers etc.

    I have a kid that has been in and out of hospital several years. S/he’s basically self taught since year 10 and just completed 12th and spent no more than 5 weeks in classes. S/he did astonishingly well scored well enough to get into the course and uni she wants to.

    His/her schooling was done through correspondence and was self taught.

    If this is any indication we should be spending less on schools not more. Spending ought to be going the other way.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 2:14 am

  111. Homer mining:

    Homer calls Howard boring (in 2006).

    RL,

    People are looking for a change.

    The Kruddmeister is simply branding Howard. Once the brand sticks it makes said voters choice easy to choose the correct fork in the road.

    Merely because the brand is incorrect does not make the strategy wrong.

    even Howard’s best friends concede he is boring yet he gained electoral wins.

    Homer of course had discussions with Howard’s “best friends” who told him he was boring. Howard is more boring than Rudd?

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 2:19 am

  112. Indeed, Dover. That the US president is now canvassing national bankruptcy and the FT is reporting on a looming debt crisis, Barnaby isn’t looking too dumb at all.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 2:21 am

  113. British courts now issuing arrest warrants against Jews.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 2:23 am

  114. Climate scientist, Prince Charles, shows how much he cares:

    He may be the green prince, but Britain’s heir to the throne has been slammed for being a hypocrite after flying to the Copenhagen climate change summit to deliver a keynote speech on an executive jet with a large carbon footprint, UK media reports say.

    Prince Charles attended the conference in Denmark on the $21,800 RAF Royal Flight that emitted about 6.4 tons of carbon dioxide, the Daily Mail reported… The Prince, an avowed environmentalist, will offset the carbon emissions by investing in green initiatives using taxpayers’ money, the Daily Express reported…

    At Copenhagen, the Prince said in a speech that the human exploitation of the earth’s resources had pushed it “to the brink” and the planet has reached a point of crisis that can only be resolved with global action.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 2:30 am

  115. If this is any indication we should be spending less on schools not more. Spending ought to be going the other way.

    But JC we’re going to have an education revolution. The average iq will jump a full standard deviation, technological wonders will bless the land, and nary a dunce to be seen except in the Cabinet room.

    I’ll probably get caned for this but if you really want to improve education then improve the intelligence of teachers. We need to adopt the educational philosophy of countries like Japan and Hungry, where teachers are highly respected because they are intelligent and conscientious, not necessarily highly schooled. As one former Prof once commented to me: “John, there is a big difference between schooling and education.” The focus today is too much on schooling rather than education. We don’t need more highly qualified teachers, we need more intelligent and committed teachers. That single change will do more than laptops and buildings.

    Good news about your child. Congratulations.

    John H.

    December 17, 2009 at 2:39 am

  116. Yikes, they’re getting into the Rex Connor zone.

    U.S. National Debt Tops Debt Limit.

    The latest calculation of the National Debt as posted by the Treasury Department has – at least numerically – exceeded the statutory Debt Limit approved by Congress last February as part of the Recovery Act stimulus bill.

    The ceiling was set at $12.104 trillion dollars. The latest posting by Treasury shows the National Debt at nearly $12.135 trillion.

    A senior Treasury official told CBS News that the department has some “extraordinary accounting tools” it can use to give the government breathing room in the range of $150-billion when the Debt exceeds the Debt Ceiling.

    Were it not for those “tools,” the U.S. Government would not have the statutory authority to borrow any more money. It might block issuance of Social Security checks and require a shutdown of some parts of the federal government.

    Default was a strong word but, in essence, Barnaby was right.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 2:44 am

  117. Even his mother thinks he’s a nut CL, she is grooming Prince William to take over the family business

    tal

    December 17, 2009 at 2:47 am

  118. Ken – I understand you don’t want to take the argument off track, that’s fair enough.

    What I will say is that I live in WA where the government largely does a fine job in service provision, not withstanding the funding problems in the health sector. The government here has provided us with a very good road and rail system. Thank god we don’t have shitty toll roads as major arteries here. My kids all go or have gone to public schools and have excelled, so in my opinion the government has also done a fine job with education.

    sdfc

    December 17, 2009 at 3:18 am

  119. tal, whenever I read one of EF’s columns I remind myself that a persons got to earn a living. Apparently she is not interested in doing architecture and it must be hell trying to think up a column every week.
    Most columnists stray into writing about their kids dogs and holidays.
    There certainly is a nasty tone to many of her pieces – contempt for ordinary folk without her sensitivities and here contempt for the taste of the rich.
    Perhaps she should go back to practising architecture to show how it should be done.

    killcare

    December 17, 2009 at 3:45 am

  120. Still trying to figure out the new wordpress accounts – the last post under killcare was me.

    Ken Nielsen

    December 17, 2009 at 3:47 am

  121. Let’s make a list of those Australians in Copenhagen outside the 140 odd in the official delegation.
    I’ve seen mention of
    Tim Costello
    Clive Hamilton
    Mike Rann
    who else???

    And where are they all staying? There aren’t that many hotel rooms there. For the Olympics they bring in cruise ships. Have they done that? Or is Malmo taking the overflow? Tivoli is closed so perhaps they’ve pitched tents there.
    I’d really like to know.

    Ken Nielsen

    December 17, 2009 at 3:54 am

  122. sdfc

    Why do governments need to waste money on health and education infrastructure? If they want to help people with those things, why tdon’t they just pay the users or give them a voucher.

    Government has skewed the market for health and education. The fact that your children did well in the WA education system does not mean that the sytem is delivering well-educated human beings. It is quite clear that these days if a child sprouts all the left-wing multi-culti pieties he or she will pass school with flying colours. I see the evidence of this all the time, when law graduates who have supposedly scored 95+ cannot construct a lucid sentence.

    Toryhere

    December 17, 2009 at 3:14 pm

  123. t is quite clear that these days if a child sprouts all the left-wing multi-culti pieties he or she will pass school with flying colours.

    I did all the advanced subjects in school and philosophy has bugger all to do with physics chemistry and quadratic equations.

    I take your point though, I know an English Teacher who is always waxing lyrical about post structuralism and the relativity of knowledge. Is it any wonder that students are leaving the humanities in droves? It puts students in a real quandry because if a student challenges some of the fundamental assumptions of a teacher chances are it will impact on scoring. I saw this at Uni, I had a Marxist history lecturer and his grading of my papers was only a credit so I referred the matter to my other history lecturer who immediately adjusted my grade. Just this week there was a study released which claimed that while teachers verbally lauded creativity and “expanding the envelope”(stupid bloody phrase), when marking students it was clear they favoured those who toed the line … . So humanities students are caught between a rock and hard place, they have my deepest sympathy, particularly given that English, where that French pap dominates, is compulsory.

    John H.

    December 17, 2009 at 4:35 pm

  124. It is quite clear that these days if a child sprouts all the left-wing multi-culti pieties he or she will pass school with flying colours. I see the evidence of this all the time, when law graduates who have supposedly scored 95+ cannot construct a lucid sentence.

    Rather than assuming that the government is behind is vast conspiracy to get students to spout ‘multi-culti’ doctrine in physics, accounting, etc., maybe it’s simply the case that a lot of law graduates are fucking morons.

    THR

    December 17, 2009 at 4:41 pm

  125. THR:

    Last year RL Toryhere was telling us how a large number of these idiot law grads were coming in with majors in meja studies and “herman” rights. He’s right to pour scorn, as it’s richly deserved.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 5:01 pm

  126. Harry goes to see Avatar and sees an environmental message for us all: our shared responsibility in destroying the planet.

    Perhaps if stopped driving and catching planes all the time he’d leave a little more oxygen for the rest of us.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 5:08 pm

  127. “…maybe it’s simply the case that a lot of law graduates are fucking morons.”

    Did baby cry all night, THR? The joys of parenthood.

    dover_beach

    December 17, 2009 at 5:33 pm

  128. So Toryhere, health and education should be privately run? Why? The US health system is largely private yet has huge holes in service where large numbers go uninsured. How is this a better system?

    How will private schools deliver a better education to lower income kids without a huge increase in cost. Will they cover the whole cost to a family where the major breadwinner is on say $50K a year. If not why should those children be disadvantaged.

    By the way our oldest has just finished a maths degree, averaging high 80s. I doubt he could have been better served by a private school education.

    sdfc

    December 17, 2009 at 6:14 pm

  129. “The US health system is largely private yet has huge holes in service where large numbers go uninsured. How is this a better system?”

    I’m no fan of the US system, but this is almost entirely wrong. It’s a mixed system, with public insurance for the old and the poor (a bit less than 30%), and private care usually tied to jobs (for historical reasons) with worker contributions (about 60% of the population). Emergency care is available to all. The uninsured number looks large, but is misleading because lots don’t need/want it. Interestingly, non-profit hospitals dominate. Non-specialist doctors earn more than anywhere else, and specialists are near the top – the high price of medical school in the US is part of the reason.

    So it’s definitely not just a case of “The US has a private system and it sucks”.

    “How will private schools deliver a better education to lower income kids without a huge increase in cost.”

    You’re assuming a linear relationship between funding and educational success. Increases in school funding have little to no correlation with increased success. Other things matter more. Outside school these include the education level of parents, books in the home, cultural attitude to learning; at school – most importantly better teachers, then minor things like greater flexibility for individual kids, ‘better’ classmates, school culture, even school hours.

    Jarrah

    December 17, 2009 at 8:43 pm

  130. The US system largely private if you mean it is a free market in health care. The US system is is a mandated system operating on a state basis.

    Please get to know you facts before you comment.

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 9:03 pm

  131. oops IS NOT

    Jc

    December 17, 2009 at 9:04 pm

  132. HAHAHAHAHA! I’m not making this up:

    Rudd demands real action on climate change at Copenhagen climate change conference.

    As hopes of a solid outcome at the mega-talkfest cool as quickly as the snow carpeting the Danish capital, Mr Rudd lectured delegates to consider their children, and their children’s children when they determine their final position.

    C.L.

    December 17, 2009 at 10:20 pm

  133. No doubt, our dear Leader, was all misty-eyed and his bottom lip trembled as he imagined our children and our children’s children dealing with the disaster awaiting them from our reckless ’emissions’; he dried his eyes and then jumped on a plane.

    dover_beach

    December 17, 2009 at 10:45 pm

  134. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091216131747.htm

    Earth’s Polar Ice Sheets Vulnerable to Even Moderate Global Warming; New Orleans, Much of Southern Florida, Expected to Be Permanently Submerged

    Nature 462, 863-867 (17 December 2009) | doi:10.1038/nature08686; Received 27 February 2009; Accepted 11 November 2009

    With polar temperatures ~3–5 °C warmer than today, the last interglacial stage (~125 kyr ago) serves as a partial analogue for 1–2 °C global warming scenarios. Geological records from several sites indicate that local sea levels during the last interglacial were higher than today, but because local sea levels differ from global sea level, accurately reconstructing past global sea level requires an integrated analysis of globally distributed data sets. Here we present an extensive compilation of local sea level indicators and a statistical approach for estimating global sea level, local sea levels, ice sheet volumes and their associated uncertainties. We find a 95% probability that global sea level peaked at least 6.6 m higher than today during the last interglacial; it is likely (67% probability) to have exceeded 8.0 m but is unlikely (33% probability) to have exceeded 9.4 m. When global sea level was close to its current level (≥-10 m), the millennial average rate of global sea level rise is very likely to have exceeded 5.6 m kyr-1 but is unlikely to have exceeded 9.2 m kyr-1. Our analysis extends previous last interglacial sea level studies by integrating literature observations within a probabilistic framework that accounts for the physics of sea level change. The results highlight the long-term vulnerability of ice sheets to even relatively low levels of sustained global warming.

    John H.

    December 17, 2009 at 10:54 pm

  135. DB, you might also care to drop over to Real Climate and follow a few of their links to some important talks just given at the AGU conference.

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/12/agu-fall-2009/

    Not a lot of skepticism in the room, it would appear.

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 12:08 am

  136. Sgeve:

    Realclimate is a political advocacy site and has no place in the science of AGW. Tt is assisted by Fenton communications a left wing PR firm.

    Gavin Schimdt is deeply implicated in the climate scandal and my betting is that he will not retain his job with NASA for any extended period of time and will find himself on permanent garden leave.

    Please stop sending people to these trashy sites as it’s bothersome.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 12:12 am

  137. JC: as you would say “stop it, just stop it!”

    Your saying that not just Schmidt’s words are unreliable, but now every post which is linked to by Schmidt is tainted by his linkage? Don’t be such a wally.

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 12:17 am

  138. By the way, I see that (much to the annoyance of many scientists who hold him up as a bit of a hero) James Randi has come out as a climate change skeptic. Further evidence of my cranky old man theory of AGW denial.

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/12/say_it_aint_so_randi.php

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 12:19 am

  139. Steve:

    Realclimate is a tainted site. Gavin Schmidt will be gone from his current role.

    And it’s correct that everything linked to is unreliable because of the site’s and the site owner’s history.

    Schmidt is a political advocate and nothing he says can be taken with any scientific integrity.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 12:21 am

  140. Wally

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 12:30 am

  141. lol.

    Don’t be scared , Steve.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 12:39 am

  142. He’s usually a critic so hats off to Andrew Bolt for posting a list of 20 things warmenists suggest we can all do to help.

    C.L.

    December 18, 2009 at 1:04 am

  143. What a great performance. Blind indig aboriginal sings Sting’s great hit in his own language in harmony on Frog television.

    http://www.mytaratata.com/Pages/ARTISTES_Fiche.aspx?ArtistId=1585

    Ignore Sting’s stupid looking hat.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 1:41 am

  144. I saw that, JC. Gurrumul Yunupingu was wonderful. Apparently, he speaks only a few words of english and has no Braille either. He’s a true prodigy.

    I assume from Sting’s hat that he’s going bald. Rockers always go the hat when they lose their hair.

    C.L.

    December 18, 2009 at 1:52 am

  145. Hey, this offsetting caper is easier than I thought:

    The Prince, who will offset the pollution he caused by using taxpayers’ money to invest in environmentally-friendly initiatives, generates an annual carbon footprint of 2,601 tons, compared to 11 tons for an average UK citizen. He was one of numerous VIPs at the £130million summit, which will generate 40,500 tons of carbon dioxide over 12 days, the equivalent to the emissions of York, Portsmouth or the African country of Malawi in the same period.

    C.L.

    December 18, 2009 at 2:30 am

  146. Monbiot: only One Man can save the planet now.

    C.L.

    December 18, 2009 at 2:33 am

  147. Now this is serious. Rudd tries to bump my former trading assistant off the BBC. Makes me despise Rudd even more now.

    KEVIN Rudd has angrily denied bumping New Zealand Prime Minister John Key from an appearance on a televised BBC climate change debate.

    Julie Bishop, the opposition’s foreign affairs spokeswoman, used the micro-blogging website Twitter to ask: “Yet another Rudd hissy fit made BBC drop NZ PM Key off panel of `greatest debate on earth’?

    “Another day, another tantrum. Hair dryer arrived?”

    Ms Bishop’s hair dryer gibe refers to reports that Mr Rudd threw a “wobbly” in Afghanistan when a hair dryer could not be found — reports he denied.

    A spokesman for Mr Rudd said there was no suggestion the Prime Minister had any involvement in the BBC’s decision to use him in the TV debate instead of Mr Key.

    “Once again, Miss Bishop has fired off baseless and untrue allegations without any proof or evidence,” he said. “It is sad to see that Miss Bishop has once again been caught out peddling scuttle and rumour that has no basis in fact.”

    Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
    Related Coverage

    Mr Rudd’s office said decisions by the BBC were a matter for the broadcaster.

    A spokeswoman for the New Zealand delegation in Copenhagen said it was “extremely disappointed” with Mr Key’s late dumping from the broadcast.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 2:58 am

  148. This is going to be interesting.

    An I- bank I deal with has invited clients to a conference call with our Dr. Pachauri next week when he will be giving a talk on behalf of the bank about future directions etc.

    They are allowing questions to be answered by the erstwhile Doctor.

    Does anyone have any questions they would like to ask him? “reasonable questions of course that don’t attack him personally but could offer some interesting answers.

    I think I could put three in at the most I think if I am able to roll them into one long stringed sentence.

    No obvious questions… just curly ones…if you know what I mean.

    The one i want to ask is the obvious one that he has with conflict of interest issues and how he is able to square that circle while being on the board of all these firms etc that could be expected to gain from the changes while keeping his position as an advocate.

    there are two others I think i could role into that.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 4:37 am

  149. Julie Bishop twitters about hairdryers.

    WOW

    rog

    December 18, 2009 at 6:06 am

  150. “DB, you might also care to drop over to Real Climate and follow a few of their links to some important talks just given at the AGU conference. Not a lot of skepticism in the room, it would appear.”

    Steve from B, what a peculiar comment but it is of a piece with you hiding behind the skirt of purported concensus. How would anyone know from the post at RC or the links it provides about the considered positions of its attendees. I tender that if we offered them three hypotheses, 1) natural factors dominate climate; 2a) natural factors as well as several anthropogenic factors, not limited to GHGs, influence climate; and 2b) GHGs dominate climate, you might be surprised by the numbers that would support hypothesis 2a and not the IPCC’s position, which is, 2b.

    Speaking of attendees, I know, for instance, that Roy Spencer presented on the question of cloud feedbacks and was, he said, well received. I also know that other scientists who are skeptical of the ‘GHGs dominates climate’ hypothesis were also in attendance.

    BTW, nice to see you’ve ‘moved on’ from your previous error without admitting your mistake.

    dover_beach

    December 18, 2009 at 8:33 am

  151. Rog:

    You had no complaints about Julie Bishop a few weeks ago.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 9:50 am

  152. DB, just referring you to stuff you might be interested in, that’s all.

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 10:22 am

  153. I’m not sure which error you are referring to. If it is about Greenland, I thought we were merely talking past each other. I knew none of the graphs presented on WUTW or Skeptical Science showed instrument readings for Central Greenland tacked on to the end of the ice core temperatures from 1900. (One comment on WUTW linked to one, but I thought he was not necessarily using Central Greenland instrument record.) You then told me what I already knew, said you would “allow” a degree, and that was it. It looks to me like if it was 1.5 to 2 degrees, it would be above the MWP according to the ice core. So, it was all much to do about very little, really.

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 10:29 am

  154. As Sinkers has already kindly linked me, I’ll note that I have set up a non-political blog here basically more of a blog with links to interesting stuff. Steve’s Opinion Dominion, an excellent underrated blog, was partly an inspiration for this. JohnH might like it too

    http://sickofpolitics.wordpress.com/

    Jason Soon

    December 18, 2009 at 10:46 am

  155. Thanks, Jason. My admirers are small in number, secretive, but of course very high quality! 🙂

    steve from brisbane

    December 18, 2009 at 11:44 am

  156. Had to happen: sport’s most notorious scandal du jour now a porn movie.

    Title: Tiger’s Wood.

    C.L.

    December 18, 2009 at 4:00 pm

  157. hahahahaah That didn’t take long.

    Jc

    December 18, 2009 at 4:10 pm

  158. “DB, just referring you to stuff you might be interested in, that’s all.”

    Fair enough. Maybe I ‘interpolated’ some snark when I shouldn’t have.

    “So, it was all much to do about very little, really.”

    No doubt it is but it was, or at least it appeared, even so very difficult for you to concede.

    dover_beach

    December 18, 2009 at 4:27 pm

  159. I’m a huge fan of Ayn Rand’s work, and the objectivist philosophy. Free markets, and free will lead to growth and prosperity. More government and regulation leads to less growth and prosperity.

    Atlas Shrugged

    January 9, 2010 at 4:46 pm


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