catallaxy files

catallaxy in technical exile

Hyperbole of the day

with 41 comments

Go to any shopping centre and the place is full of discontented women wandering around trying to find somewhere quiet to have a good weep. They’ve noticed the attractive dress in the shop window, set their heart on it, only to be told it’s only available in sizes 6 to 10.

What sort of shopping centres does Richard Glover go to?

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Written by Admin

December 2, 2006 at 10:13 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

41 Responses

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  1. Nobody makes clothes for 183cm muscular women. Nobody. So I make my own clothes or only buy clothes that suit me.

    Fashion is a crock of shit, and I refuse to play (mind you, it helps when I get to cover everything with clothes an 18th century gentleman wore at work).

    I’ve long since leaned that short blokes and reedy women will have a problem with me. My policy is to stand close to them and loom. It works well.

    skepticlawyer

    December 2, 2006 at 10:33 pm

  2. how much is 183cm in the old meaurement?

    Sinclair Davidson

    December 2, 2006 at 10:39 pm

  3. 6 feet, Sinc.

    skepticlawyer

    December 2, 2006 at 10:41 pm

  4. sheesh? you’re 183?
    any Dutch in you??
    Sinclair – that’s slightly over 6′ 1” I think

    Jason Soon

    December 2, 2006 at 10:41 pm

  5. No Dutch at all. I’m all Celt/Anglo Saxon with about 1/32 South Sea Islander. I have a 6ft6 brother, a 6ft3 brother, and a 5ft10 sister. We’re all solid, too. Not fat, either, but big and strong. Came with the genes.

    skepticlawyer

    December 2, 2006 at 10:49 pm

  6. yeah well. Most of my relatives are 5’10 to 6′. there are three runts, mother, sister and me.

    Sinclair Davidson

    December 2, 2006 at 10:52 pm

  7. A lot of the models fashionistas use are close to my height or only a fraction shorter. It’s just that they’re stick thin. I’ve always tended to have the classic ‘second rower’ build, something that anyone who ever picked a fight with me learnt to their cost.

    In heavy training I’ve been close to 100kg; at the moment I’m pretty light and unfit (around 80kg). That will change now the court year has finished and I’ve got more time to devote to the gym. I have no time for reedy women, and for men who think that such an unhealthy look is somehow attractive.

    skepticlawyer

    December 2, 2006 at 10:57 pm

  8. my paternal great grandfather who came to malaysia from china was actually 6′. My father by contrast who was born in M’sia at the end of WW2 (things were not plentiful in those days) is way shorter – 5′ 5.
    I’m a little over 5′ 10” I think.

    Jason Soon

    December 2, 2006 at 11:11 pm

  9. Is there any Manchurian in your woodpile Jason? That sort of size from that part of the world tends to be associated with Manchu.

    skepticlawyer

    December 2, 2006 at 11:19 pm

  10. Don’t know enough to say. My paternal side was originally from the north, though they moved south. Though they’re not ethnically Manchurian, that may have drifted in before the exodus.

    Jason Soon

    December 2, 2006 at 11:27 pm

  11. Twiggy says models too thin these days.

    Here is a healthy and lovely woman.

    C.L.

    December 3, 2006 at 12:20 am

  12. “In heavy training I’ve been close to 100kg; at the moment I’m pretty light and unfit (around 80kg). That will change now the court year has finished and I’ve got more time to devote to the gym. I have no time for reedy women, and for men who think that such an unhealthy look is somehow attractive.”

    I was a swimmer and so I grew up looking at broads with big jutting shoulders.

    So when the 80’s rocked around and Time Magazine declared that the sports-trained look was the latest thing this was only natural to me.

    I read the way you describe yourself skeptic, and it occurs to me that its probably been 30 years since I’ve daydreamed about being beaten up by a sheila.

    Not that I’m daydreaming about it now mind you. I wouldn’t say one way or the other.

    In fact the above is merely testimony to a disorganized mind. And it could be an example of how I’ll throw totally random thoughts into anything I write that aren’t much to do with the thread, the topic, or yet even the previous sentence that I’ve written.

    GMB

    December 3, 2006 at 12:27 am

  13. sheeit, Graeme. REALLY too much information.
    But now you’ve given me a second reason to compare you to Marv from Sin City.

    Jason Soon

    December 3, 2006 at 12:52 am

  14. Crikey Graeme, and this is supposed to be a family-friendly blog and all…

    skepticlawyer

    December 3, 2006 at 12:58 am

  15. PS Jason and bloginatrix SL, just to show I’m not completely preoccupied with Nigella, she was also a role-model for a pulchritudinous figure.

    C.L.

    December 3, 2006 at 1:23 am

  16. Now which one was Marv Jason?

    I mean I saw that wonderful movie. And I want to see it again.

    But I can tell you the character I identified with most of all no question was the deformed Mickey Rourke character.

    GMB

    December 3, 2006 at 1:25 am

  17. Yep, that’s the one, the Mickey Rourke character.

    Jason Soon

    December 3, 2006 at 9:42 am

  18. What a rambling, shambles of an article.

    The top designers focus on women living in maybe 10/12 cities in the world. Most of the gals who can afford that stuff can wear it because they are usually on the thin side. —- social x rays is how they were described in Bonfires..

    JC.

    December 3, 2006 at 2:17 pm

  19. The other thing is … the top desiners don’t make big sizes on purpose becasue they only want a certain ‘look’ wearing their stuff.

    JC.

    December 3, 2006 at 2:19 pm

  20. I did a bit of modelling when I was younger, but only ever for sports kit. While I’m tall enough to carry off the ‘fashionable’ clothing, I’m just too broad.

    skepticlawyer

    December 3, 2006 at 2:22 pm

  21. back to the article – why do fashion designers come up with clothing for such unrealistically thin women that the average bloke isn’t necessarily into?

    Three words:
    They’re mostly queers.

    Jason Soon

    December 3, 2006 at 2:24 pm

  22. Oh and for anyone following the Marv discussion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marv

    Jason Soon

    December 3, 2006 at 2:28 pm

  23. Jason

    This what wifey says:

    There are a few people who run world fashion and possibly one/two magazines. American Elle and American vogue. On woman, Anna Wintour, at American Vogue dominates. She is an incredibly thin woman. In fact she looks like a underfed rat.

    Most of the women who buy these clothes are thin, good looking and rich. Putting on a kilo to these gals is the equivalent of getting terminal cancer. Correction they would rather die of terminal cancer than be fat.

    JC.

    December 3, 2006 at 2:47 pm

  24. Yes the designers are mostly queers, but they are also in it for the money. If they thought fat clothes would sell they would produce clothees for fatties. Rich, good looking gals are generally thin. They fatties can’t afford this style of clothing.

    JC.

    December 3, 2006 at 2:50 pm

  25. Hmmm, I don’t really know what shopping centres Richard Glover goes to where clothes are only 6-10. At most stores you’ll find a size 12 much easier than a size 6. In my experience quite a few stores that stock a size 6 actually don’t. It’s a size 8 but designed so women feel good about fitting into a size smaller than they actually are.

    When I was younger I was a size 6 and I could never find anything to fit (even clothes labelled 6 needed to be taken in). Occasionally it would get me down to see how easy it was for my size 10-12 friends to just walk into any store in Pitt St and get a suit to fit off the rack. And children sizes don’t have the same ratios as women’s clothes so that wasn’t much of a solution either. The market caters to the average which is completely understandable. It’s hardly the end of the world.

    I find it interesting how it’s acceptable to go on about “normal” women can only be size 12+ and anyone who is not has eating disorders and couldn’t possibly be attractive to the other sex (well, at least the ones that aren’t gay). But if you say someone shouldn’t be wearing a particular gold dress you have to formally apologise.

    It is just another form of politcal correctness. I remember back in the late 90s when people were lauding the end of the waif and the return of “real” women (the fad was called “glamour” if anyone remembers, it was all big breasts and lost of makeup, 50s pinups stuff), yet no one realised that the most popular model of the look had actually LOST weight from her waif days. It was really stupid.

    Body dysmorphia harmfully affects the skinny and small too. Just look at the popularity of breast implants and in China, those horrific procedures designed to make you taller. For the flat chested, Nigella is probably one of the most depressing sights ever…

    Anorexia is a problem that needs to be addressed, but not by assuming that every skinny person is unhealthy or somehow less of a woman/person. If a model is healthy then if people want to promote that look, that’s their choice. At the end of the day, if it doesn’t sell then they would switch to something else or lose out. I’d be extremely worried about any moves to ban models that ARE healthy (though I can see the argument in limiting the work of models who are suffering from anorexia, even if it is only to save them from themselves).

    Whenever you set up one ideal (be it Kate Moss or Nigella), you create insecurities in people who are different and that will lead some to emulate in ways that are unhealthy. I just don’t think the answer is to set up another ideal and then think that’s somehow more morally justifiable.

    People have different tastes. Some men like women who are small and petite, other men like women who are muscular and lots of men like women who are curvy. Just like some women like built men, others prefer their partners more effete and bookish. Yay I say! Yay to difference and choice!

    Unfortunately, fashion just doesn’t work like that, it needs a look, a trend that everyone can bet on but that’s its problem. We can exercise our choice by buying something from a niche store or just going to a tailor (if you lack the sewing skills yourself).

    Kitty

    December 3, 2006 at 10:48 pm

  26. Kitty,

    Actually I’m into (healthily) slim women myself, but you have to admit some of these catwalk models are just ridiculous. Their clothes are even worse, You really start to wonder whether some of this ridiculousness on the part of the fashion designers is intentional.

    Jason Soon

    December 3, 2006 at 11:10 pm

  27. Interesting thoughts, Kitty. I like Nigella’s hips, face and healthy look more than her breasts per se – they’re not the focus of her appeal to me. But anyway, I think most men (and women) will state a preference fairly readily if asked. Ultimately, however, what I find attractive in women is naturalness and the exemplars of that sublime quality – as you correctly insist – come in all shapes and sizes.

    The kind of thing that’s a turn-off is the attitudinal obsessiveness and studied, chic self-neglect of a Posh Spice. Eating disorders are partially rooted in a fetishisation of “self-control” – in tangential association with other manifestations of anxiety and neuroticism – and that “self-control” is largely measured against the “standards” canonised in popular culture.

    I agree with you that any attempt to make the hourglass body fashionably normative may also end up being hurtful to the naturally petite. The discourse actuating change should concentrate on healthiness and realism (for the majority) rather than what the fashion industry (or men) may happen to desire.

    C.L.

    December 4, 2006 at 12:37 am

  28. I think Nigella is gorgeous (and not just because of her chest!) and Posh Spice is tragic and has an obvious eating disorder. I think any focus on “healthy” is commendable, I just wish there wasn’t the popular assumption that being skinny = unhealthy. I don’t really see why being told that I need to eat more (when I eat plenty) by a shop assistant when I can’t fit into their clothes is seen as socially acceptable but can you imagine what would happen if I told some random stranger they needed to lose weight?

    Jason, I DO find some catwalk models and many of the clothes ridiculous and repulsive. It’s a world I don’t have much time for. All because I once was a size 6 doesn’t make me relate to models, I’m about half their height and find the idea of them somewhat scary. But I think people take the catwalk too seriously. It is supposed to be a spectacle that gets headlines and pictures in circulation. Often the clothes you see on the catwalk NEVER make it into any retail shop, the sizes are increased (they make up tiny samples esp for the models) and the hems etc are made more conservative. Sometimes the couture show is merely the advertising to sell not clothes, but perfume and makeup as that’s where the big profits are made.

    Fashion is often blamed on (gay) men but there are plenty of women in the fashion industry. Most editors of the fashion press are women not gay men and they are the key gatekeepers. Admittedly they have to answer to their advertising departments (a New Woman editor was sacked years ago when she used one too many curvy model and it upset the advertisers) but women are the end consumers and they need to take more responsibility if they want change. It’s only in the women’s gossip press that you’ll find the ridiculous obsession with celebrity weight. If someone is less than slim, it becomes front page news, it’s hardly surprising then that celebrities do develop eating disorders, I probably would if any of my flabby bits were enlarged, circled in red pen and distributed around the world. So they get anorexia and then are lampooned for being too skinny by the same magazines. It’s so awful.

    I personally agree that we should be encouraging “healthy” and “difference” but maybe we as women also need to be less competitive about beauty and difference in general. When I was younger, I used to find reading fashion magazines so depressing because I would compare myself to each model and of course, come out lacking. It’s not just the skinniness that makes them insecurity provoking! One way to combat the insecurity is to dismiss models as “airheads” or unattractive to most men etc. But there are quite a few who are beautiful, healthy and intelligent (you’ll find a higher than expected number are using it to pay for their law/economics/etc degrees) and they are the scariest of them all! 🙂 At some point, we have to realise there are other things in life and unless you plan on being a model, we don’t have to see them as a competition. We can also support brands that use healthy and interesting models and ignore the idiots that don’t!

    The world has always imposed ideals of fashion. There seems to be some compelling human need for it. But I do wish in these post-post-modern times, more women would have learnt tools to deconstruct it, realise the idiocy and move on with their own lives. But if they don’t, I’m not sure what can be done. Moral bans will eventually backfire like the fur campaigns resulted in fur being cool again because it was sooooo taboo previously. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Sorry about the super long post, one thing I am interested in is how people think this indignation is related to food fascism and banning of cigarettes for health reasons. If people want to starve themselves in the name of fashion, is this any different from enjoying other unhealthy activities? Should we ban anorexic advertising in the same way we’ve done with smoking and some are trying to do with food?

    Kitty

    December 4, 2006 at 11:03 am

  29. Cue, a totally mainstream women’s office gear Australian chain with branches in most shopping centres, is phasing out size 14 as their largest size. Only half their current range comes in 14. 6 is the smallest.

    My best friend manages a Cue store. Shop floor staff are extremely unhappy about this decision: it just means that there’s another twenty percent of women who will not fit into anything in the shop.

    It’s mad. I used to work in mass market fashion and these kinds of obviously uncommercial decisions seem to originate nowhere. Nobody will take responsibility for them.

    Laura

    December 4, 2006 at 1:31 pm

  30. I have a really classy size 14 Cue jacket (like many strength sports types, I’m a 12-14 up top and a 10-12 below). So, yet another fashion house where I won’t be able to buy clothes, at least as far as jackets are concerned.

    And we’re trying to encourage girls to play more sport, lift more weights etc etc…

    Sheesh.

    skepticlawyer

    December 4, 2006 at 1:45 pm

  31. Good points, Kitty. I’ll adjust my attitudes on this topic accordingly.

    C.L.

    December 4, 2006 at 3:09 pm

  32. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making size 6s more readily available maybe with the increases in Asian immigration there’s a lot more of us that just don’t fit into standard “Aussie” sizes (it’s just our genes). I haven’t been clothes shopping in a while, but I found the size 6s* if made often disappeared first so I’m guessing there’s a need for them. But it shouldn’t be at the cost of getting rid of a size that is still popular (14).

    Cue is now added to my list of idiot stores. It’s just stupid to make such an obviously commercially harmful move. They are hardly high fashion and depend on the average consumer. Maybe they think that if they move to a smaller size they will seem more exclusive. I hope it backfires on them.

    (*Sizes also depend on stores. I’m no longer a size 6 but I will fit into some clothes labelled so, I also fit into some size 10 clothes so go figure! I gave up on general retail clothes and their labelling system years ago)

    Kitty

    December 4, 2006 at 3:38 pm

  33. “I read the way you describe yourself skeptic, and it occurs to me that its probably been 30 years since I’ve daydreamed about being beaten up by a sheila.”

    Aieee!!!

    Am I the only one hearing Joan Armatrading right about now?

    FDB

    December 4, 2006 at 3:41 pm

  34. Sorry, link

    FDB

    December 4, 2006 at 3:43 pm

  35. FDB, one of my best friends used to be a competing female kickboxer and very good. But it was illegal for women to fight in competition in NSW, I think it probably still is.

    Kitty

    December 4, 2006 at 4:02 pm

  36. Yeah.

    Probably that would be you thats the only one hearing Joan Armatrading right now fella.

    GMB

    December 4, 2006 at 4:11 pm

  37. I thought you liked Joan, Graeme?

    Jason Soon

    December 4, 2006 at 4:12 pm

  38. Don’t talk to me Graeme.

    FDB

    December 4, 2006 at 4:24 pm

  39. Yeah I quite like Joan. I like some of her lyrics and something about her attitude I suppose.

    But this sodomite is putting his own lens on what I said.

    You see the social pressures on us not to beat up on our girlfriends, mistresses and wives just aren’t there when two sodomites get together.

    Plus on top of that young queers have a culture of great promiscuity and this cannot go on for too long without a bit of the Maque de Sade sadism creeping in.

    After all willfully injecting incurable blood diseases into strangers is pretty sadistic if you ask me.

    Anyhow because of this lack of restraining social pressure and other unfortunate aspects of sodomite culture, these pairings often wind up with one queer an unrestrained bully and the other one a complete bitch.

    This is the grubby experience FDB is projecting on to me with these Armatrading lyrics. And I resent it.

    30 years ago when I was only 22,770 years old I was into comic books and things. And we would have these martial arts magazines where these hot-looking yet somewhat muscular sheilas would get in these Kung Fu fights.

    This would be a bit of a sideline to the famous “Iron Fist” and “The Crow” and teams of martial artists.

    At 22,770 you can be a bit of a dreamer. Play games of cowboys and Indians with the other old guys. Make tree huts. And get about in the canoes on the damn and so forth. Where the water isn’t clear and actually muddy–brown.

    And there are capsized canoes on the damn that afford trapped air. So that the other old guys can never tell where you are hiding.

    And you get clay and throw it at eachother when the other old bugger surfaces and this sort of thing.

    Now this is a little bit closer to what I was talking about with reference to 30 years ago.

    But FDB wants to overlay his own grubby experiences onto it.

    And it just shows he has no pity nor any human feeling and I’ll explain why with a couple of quotes up front:

    I sez:

    “I was a swimmer and so I grew up looking at broads with big jutting shoulders.”

    But then skeptic later sez:

    “I did a bit of modelling when I was younger, but only ever for sports kit. While I’m tall enough to carry off the ‘fashionable’ clothing, I’m just too broad.”

    Then still later skeptic sez:

    “I have a really classy size 14 Cue jacket (like many strength sports types, I’m a 12-14 up top and a 10-12 below).”

    And so you can see why it is that I say FDB has no human feeling.

    Because its pretty clear that the woman is just TOYING!!!!! with me.

    And then FDB comes along. To give me a hard time.

    Effectively piling on.

    Why are people so unkind.

    GMB

    December 4, 2006 at 5:01 pm

  40. Graeme
    Go to the Gaidar thread and apologise to FDB for your very nasty comment

    Jason Soon

    December 4, 2006 at 5:06 pm

  41. No chance. That ghoul was laughing at Gaidar.

    Dude just got poisoned. We’ve got Barnes implying that anyone thinking a poisoning might involve some sort of conspiracy are paranoid nutters.

    And then we’ve got FDB laughing at Gaider.

    Now imagine if KGB poisoned you?

    Is this the response you want?

    Dissing you and anyone speculating about who could have done such a thing?

    We need to heap scorn on these bad attitudes.

    GMB

    December 4, 2006 at 5:22 pm


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