catallaxy files

catallaxy in technical exile

Yobbo's Northbridge adventure

with 21 comments

Yobbo is looking for legal advice after some shabby treatment by some cops.

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Written by Admin

November 5, 2006 at 6:34 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

21 Responses

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  1. Sorry, Yobbo. I never completed the Ll.B so I can’t provide legal advice.

    Sinclair Davidson

    November 5, 2006 at 7:01 pm

  2. Also noted at LP:

    http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/11/05/more-move-on-madness/

    I dropped out of my LlB too – one of my more sensible decisions at age 18 I think…

    Mark Bahnisch

    November 5, 2006 at 7:23 pm

  3. Bouncers can be such arseholes too but what can you do about them?

    Jason Soon

    November 5, 2006 at 7:25 pm

  4. Speaking as someone who had his ribs broken by a bouncer in an unprovoked assault, I think you can take them to court…

    Mark Bahnisch

    November 5, 2006 at 7:27 pm

  5. You can’t do anything about them kicking you out of the pub, it is after all private property.

    The reason these laws are unjust is that Bouncers effectively have the power to remove you from streets surrounding their establishment, as police will always back them up in instances like this.

    If they don’t want me in their pub that’s up to them, but they have no right to direct me to leave the vicinity.

    If police had not been summoned by bouncers then I would not have been issued a move-on order as I wasn’t doing anything except standing around.

    I’d like to know what special qualifications a bouncer posesses to cast judgement on who is allowed to stand on the corner of Lake St and Francis St, and why police are willing to accept their judgement.

    yobbo

    November 5, 2006 at 7:34 pm

  6. I’m not sure of your circumstances, but you have a couple of options.

    1. You can wait for your court appearance and have the duty solicitor represent you (you will get representation, and it’ll be free).

    2. You can take the documentation you have to a specialist criminal solicitor and pay for representation, although depending on your circumstances you may be eligible for legal aid. If the facts are as you suggest, it is worth pleading ‘not guilty’ and contesting the fine.

    That said, you need to be careful that your memory isn’t playing tricks on you – this would depend on how much alcohol you’d consumed, and ultimately only you can be the judge of that. I’d recommend seeing a specialist criminal solicitor.

    I’m not sure where you live, but often a good way to find out who the good criminal solicitors are is just to wander down to the Magistrates’ Court on a Monday or a Friday – these are the two busiest days. Ask the way to the ‘arrest court’ and ping the duty solicitor for a recommendation.

    skepticlawyer

    November 5, 2006 at 7:45 pm

  7. I simply do not go into pubs with bouncers. Simple.

    Scott

    November 5, 2006 at 7:47 pm

  8. SL, I have 3 witnesses who can confirm that everything that happened is as I have written on my blog.

    I challenged the authority of the bouncers to tell me to leave a public place, and that is what caused the whole thing.

    Bouncers, like police, primarily like the fact that they have power over others in their job. Challenging their authority sends them crazy.

    Police are no different. There is no reason that they had to issue me a move-on order, they only did so because I didn’t behave in an apologetic manner, because I had nothing to apologise for.

    Drinking alcohol is not a crime in Australia, and I refuse to be treated like a criminal because I was out drinking with my friends.

    yobbo

    November 5, 2006 at 8:01 pm

  9. See a solicitor ASAP, Yobbo. Your friends can then give statements while the details are fresh in their minds – as can you.

    skepticlawyer

    November 5, 2006 at 8:56 pm

  10. There seems to be a bit of get-squarism around these days: “Police in upstate New York were summoned to Planet Fitness recently to oust a member who broke the rules by grunting while exercising”.

    Sounds like a Seinfeld bit involving George.

    C.L.

    November 5, 2006 at 10:01 pm

  11. SL, but what these witnesses can attest to? That the police order was unfounded? It may be so, but all the same Yobbo says he disobeyed this order, and this apparently is a crime, regardless whether police order was reasonable or not. What can you do about this?

    Boris

    November 6, 2006 at 12:07 am

  12. Grunting while exercising?

    That’s insane.

    I guess what Yobbo should determine is whether it is worth the trouble to actually pursue the matter or whether it should be chalked up to experience that bouncers abuse their power sometimes (hardly a surprise there).

    Sometimes pursuing things can cause more trouble than something is worth. Up to him.

    Darlene

    November 6, 2006 at 9:12 am

  13. Darlene: That’s what I’m hoping to find out from my legal advice.

    And bouncers don’t have any power. It is the police that have abused their power.

    yobbo

    November 6, 2006 at 10:01 am

  14. Boris,
    If the police order was unfounded it is invalid. Yobbo has to prove that it was it does not pass a “reasonable suspicion” test. To use the language in the Act:
    “…the officer reasonably suspects that the person … [several paragraphs, probably not relevant] is committing any other breach of the peace”.
    If there were no reasonable bases for the order, then it is beyond the power of the officer to issue it.
    BTW – this is not legal advice.

    Andrew Reynolds

    November 6, 2006 at 11:01 am

  15. cross posted at Yobbo’s

    yobbo – I don’t disbelieve your story BUT on the surface at present it just sounds like every other drunk in hotel chucked out by bouncer story.

    How many drinks? – I don’t know but I wasn’t drunk and my mates will say so: Sorry but this sounds like the same old story heard everyday in court.

    You need to get a grip on the number of drinks you had – how much money did you spend? how many drinks an hour? were you drinking spirits, pots, pints, small glases, wine, beer, water every second drink?

    Was the pub crowded, raucus, or were you having a quiet chat about the place of Libertarianism in a post -leftist Society with special reference to the Western State?

    Did you slur words? Were you yahooing? or Yobboing? Were you staggering?

    I’d be surprised that the beak would be impressed if the plod or prosecution brings up that you run a blog called YOBBO with almost naked Asian “lingerie models” each friday and that you make a living by online gambling. Just be thankfull you weren’t caught buying superphospate for the farm, with a full beard and a Koran under your arm.

    I’m not a lawyer, nor do I impersonate one on the internet, but I’d say your big goal is to avoid having a conviction recorded – that might mean a “plea bargain” so to speak or swallowing a few principles.

    Good luck.

    Francis X Holden

    November 6, 2006 at 11:12 am

  16. You probably need to look at the equivalent of the Queensland Liquor Act. It is draconian and provides licencees and their agents powers which go beyond the powers of a usual occupier eg Section 165 (3) of the Liquor Act 1992 provides that a licensee may use “necessary and reasonable force” in removing a person who is disorderly or causing a disturbance”.

    To see what the biouncer’s powers are.

    It will have a definition of disturbance which is entirely subjective to the bouncer.

    It seems that there are two levels
    1. ejection from the club
    2. failure to obey a ‘lawful’ direction.

    You should then look at the legislative basis for the mocve on powers.

    You should seek access to the Police “Police computer assisted dispatch system”…..the “Night club log’ for the evening to see what the bouncers said when they called for police. There will be the usual inaccuracies and a copy of any video survellence.

    Most coppers (smart ones that is) carry digital recorders so if you have used “familar” language …it might be recorded.

    you should also check your bail, often these offences are dealt with by cash bail. The person arrested, pays a cash bail, then if they fail to turn up to court the cash is forfeited and universally the charge is not pursued. You end up with a forfeiture of bail on the crim history and no charge for a failure to move on (or whatever). It is not satisfactory….but it is cost effective.

    .50cal

    November 6, 2006 at 11:19 am

  17. “Was the pub crowded, raucus, or were you having a quiet chat about the place of Libertarianism in a post -leftist Society with special reference to the Western State?”

    When I was ejected I had just gone to the bar to get a drink. Immediately prior to that we were on the Dance floor.

    .50, I wasn’t required to pay any bail. They just let me go and even called me a taxi (which never turned up). The only condition of my bail is that I can’t re-enter Northbridge until my court appearance.

    yobbo

    November 6, 2006 at 11:35 am

  18. three rules for yobbo:

    “there are no rights”

    “fight the battles you know you can win”

    “make the high value plays”

    c8to

    November 6, 2006 at 12:25 pm

  19. If you never experience defeat then you never learn anything.

    yobbo

    November 6, 2006 at 12:59 pm

  20. Have a look at the Liquor Licencing Act 1988 Sections 108 and 115

    The powers to remove a person from premises are broad and subjective ie if the bouncer thinks you are drunk you are

    What have you been formally charged with? Act and section

    .50cal

    November 6, 2006 at 2:09 pm

  21. Yobbo:
    Another suggestion from a NON-lawyer: A Stat Dec of what you were not or did not do on that night. “I did not stagger nor fall over nor walk with an unsteady gait ….”. “I did not vomit ….”, “I did not abuse the police officer ….”. ” I did not shout or scream or ….” and so on.

    No need to be inventive especially, as .50″ Cal points out, the police could have you as a recording star already.

    Have you thought of partying at home/ friends’ residence? A pleasant intimate orgy with a flagon of CRP definitely beats the very expensive jostle-and-slop at a nightclub 🙂

    Graham Bell

    November 6, 2006 at 11:18 pm


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